The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
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17-03-2011, 10:16 AM
The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
Quote:For the director of music. Of David.
1 The fool[a] says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

4 Do all these evildoers know nothing?

They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the LORD.
5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.
6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the LORD is their refuge.

7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
When the LORD restores his people,
let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

BTW the Hebrew world for "fool" is one who is morally deficient.

I posted that this passage is a big lie. Atheists and other non believers do good things and we are not morally deficient.

Well my ex-pastor and a Christian says I am wrong, but I am illiterate in the Bible.:

James: No its saying that the morally deficient are unbelievers. Take a look at the structure of the verse.

"The Fool (more properly rendered morally deficient) says in his heart "there is no God."

"They [this refers back to the word fool, so in reference to the morally deficient] are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one [of those] who does good."

"It is not saying that you are foolish to deny God and therefore are a bad person. It is saying that bad people deny God, and they do bad things. Hurray for literacy."

My ex-pastor: (When did "Enter" become enter post? Grrr) James is right, the point of the Psalm (written in an era when atheists as we know then did not exists) is that when a person acts in a wicked and immoral way, they are de facto saying ("in their hearts") there is no God, regardless of their proclaimed religious beliefs.

No, it's saying that those who are foolish (morally deficient) are de facto saying "in their heart" that they don't really believe in God (because to genuinely believe is to obey), regardless of profession.

So what do we all think does Psalm 14 mean?

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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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17-03-2011, 12:08 PM
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
Ask James whether he thinks its alright to call people (even people that are morally deficient) fools? If yes, refer to Matthew 5:22.
Also, since when was the criterion for believing how much good you do? Beliefs and moral actions are seperate, aside from beliefs influencing moral actions.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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17-03-2011, 12:30 PM
 
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
The fact that there is so much ambiguity and so many different ways of perceiving the text based on personal perception is a dead giveaway that it's written by man and sprung from the imagination.

If this god was as omnipotent, omniscient, and omniverous or whatever omni-word you want to slap on him, then doesn't anyone thing he would speak in very clear and concise statements? Heck, if I was a god and I had created life and wanted to give clear edicts about what I do and do not find acceptable I wouldn't leave room for interpretation but instead would, for example, say "If thoust purchases a ticket to a Dane Cook concert I will smite thee." or if I was Jesus, "If I return to Earth and see anyone wearing a cross around their neck, I will kickest thine ass."

Also, and in regards to that passage, what the fuck good is freewill if this supposed god is then telling us what we should and shouldn't believe?

It amazes me that so many people abide by this book that can be dismantled with grade school critical thinking.
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17-03-2011, 12:34 PM
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
Seems to me that it's calling out "bad" christians/believers in god. The way I read it, looks to me that what it says is that you can't give the judeo-christian god lip service and then be a bad person. This still makes you a bad person, and you aren't practicing what you preach, therefore they make the assertion that you don't REALLY believe.

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17-03-2011, 12:35 PM
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
It's a defense mechanism against non believers.
If you doubt god - then you're a vile piece of crap.
I agree with your interpretation , some people do the most horrendous things EVER praising god on their lips as they do it - see the Crusades and Inquisition.I doubt they rejected god in their hearts.

What I find interesting is that god looks down on ALL mankind and finds no righteous people.
Isn't there a contradiction there that's mentioned on our very website ?

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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17-03-2011, 12:38 PM
 
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
It's thought crime. It's essentially predicting that inevitably there will be people who don't believe in this crap, even if they deign to believe it, so let's scare them by saying even if you THINK there is no god you will be punished.

Snake oil by today's standards but back when it was written I'm sure there were many who thought, "Whoah...if it was written in this book, then this god dude must have knew i was going to think that he didn't really exist before i thought it! that's like, amazing...i'm going to believe in this dude."

In reality, it equates to mental slavery by the authors of this particular work of fiction and was yet another insurance policy for the authorities to get the plebes to do what they want and keep them in line.
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17-03-2011, 01:00 PM
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
(17-03-2011 12:30 PM)SANSD8TY Wrote:  The fact that there is so much ambiguity and so many different ways of perceiving the text based on personal perception is a dead giveaway that it's written by man and sprung from the imagination.

If this god was as omnipotent, omniscient, and omniverous or whatever omni-word you want to slap on him, then doesn't anyone thing he would speak in very clear and concise statements? Heck, if I was a god and I had created life and wanted to give clear edicts about what I do and do not find acceptable I wouldn't leave room for interpretation but instead would, for example, say "If thoust purchases a ticket to a Dane Cook concert I will smite thee." or if I was Jesus, "If I return to Earth and see anyone wearing a cross around their neck, I will kickest thine ass."

Also, and in regards to that passage, what the fuck good is freewill if this supposed god is then telling us what we should and shouldn't believe?

It amazes me that so many people abide by this book that can be dismantled with grade school critical thinking.

First, did you steal Matt D's online name?

Second, even those supposedly clear verses you suggested could be interpreted in different and interesting ways, especially with the endeavour of theology. If I were to suggest a clear bible verse, I would say "This book, the holy bible, is to be taken fucking literally!" Clear enough?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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17-03-2011, 01:06 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2011 01:10 PM by Kikko.)
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
Quote:So what do we all think does Psalm 14 mean?
Don't care. *BURRRRPP* *more cola*

It's just a song, so it's not about what we think it means, it's about what the original writer meant with it. I think what he (I'm very sure he's a he) is seeing what he thinks is immorality everywhere and so writes that God sees it and wonders if there's any righteous people on earth anymore. ''The immoral people say there's no God'' probably means that the writer doesn't think that the evildoers don't really accept God because they don't follow God's rules. Or something. Maybe everone was eating shellfish and having fun without burning animals for God.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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17-03-2011, 01:13 PM
 
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
(17-03-2011 01:00 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  First, did you steal Matt D's online name?

Second, even those supposedly clear verses you suggested could be interpreted in different and interesting ways, especially with the endeavour of theology. If I were to suggest a clear bible verse, I would say "This book, the holy bible, is to be taken fucking literally!" Clear enough?

Matt D? Sorry, don't know who that is. Just by nature of the handle I am assuming it's someone who is atheist? This is actually my license plate which I had to condense down to SANSD8TY because SANSDEITY was 1 alphanumeric character too long.

Anywho, I agree. Why, if these are the words of god, are they so open to interpretation. Just say what you man!
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17-03-2011, 04:04 PM
 
RE: The Atheist Bible Study: What do we all think of Psalm 14
To answer the question posed in the OP.

I think it's natural for a political ideology such as the cult of Christianity to insult, defame and condemn any and all who are not aligned with it's tenets.

Bible god is a terrorist and a mass murderer. A psychopath that, according to the Bible word of man is all knowing and given this, drowns the entire world for living up to god's expectations. Fulfilling human destiny just as god had planned. While omnipresence then saw fit to repopulate the world with inbred damned sinners after the planet was all dried out, so that he could promise next time he'd show mercy and burn the world to death in a repeat performance, as punishment for the same disappointment we afford the omniscient divine.

The atheist says of Psalm 14, I think it does not hold merit because it speaks to believers as a warning to hold their faith in all that, else that power that created all that exists including atheists that bear no surprise for omniscient creators, feel the wrath of the murdering Sadist of Heaven.

2 Chronicles 15:12~13(KJV) And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.


It is impossible for free will to exist within the dominion of that what is said to be omniscient omnipresence.

The fool and their heart worships that which does not exist and thus seeks to please nothing, all the days of a real life.
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