The Atheist cop out
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12-05-2013, 02:41 PM
The Atheist cop out
Skepticism. I value it very much, perhaps why i chose this section to write in first, catering to my agnostic principles, and so i must speak my mind about something I'm sure many of you atheists are all too familiar with. First i'd like to say that I'm no bible-thumbing, finger-wagging, right wing nut job, who thinks you're all evil, ignorant, or otherwise bad people, and expect to be treated with more respect than that.
Ideally, I'd like this facet of my existence to be understood through my future posts, however(on both "theist" and "atheist" forums alike) people have a tendency to criticize, often unfairly, so let's just get this out of the way now.

pushing on--

When it comes down to it, nobody knows when the origin of the known universe, anything and everything started or where it sprang about from. And i do of course realize that when you take it back to that singularity, asking a question like "when" or "before" starts to break down and almost become entirely inapplicable.

However, where why meets how, and touches down to now, is there really no room left for when? Or, for that matter, what came before?

This has nagged and nagged at mankind for a long time and not just "theists," but rather all people. Your own, personal apathy is not reflective of some of the more brilliant thinkers that have come and gone throughout history.

There is no scientific consensus about where exactly everything truly came from, before the big bang.

Evidence, or dare I say, proof for god?
Hardly.
But! Room for God. A general, extra-dimensional, super-natural being(yes, aliens too)? Why the heck not?
To say, that because you are an atheist, you, unlike your theist brethren, are truly not "obligated" to answer that question is such a huge cop out.
To not have to explain how any one(or many) deities in particular created the universe, true, you are not obligated. Anybody can make up a religion(although frankly any religion i make up is not going to have the historical, geographical harmony that some of the more major religions have) and exclaim their particular god did it.
But to come down with such resolve and say there is no chance for any known and unknown god-concepts seems rather arrogant.

Are we to just leave it at that then? Do we surrender to the Buddhist way and assume we are simply incapable of understanding such a massive headache of a truth?

I see the obvious bitter distane many of you would have for organized religion, and rightfully so. But to thereby right off all religion, to then go about claiming that no truth can be found is a bitter, narrow-minded, emotion-based statement of pure diminishement.

And while i do also get the apathy for many others, it is not seeking truth, and is unworthy of a discussion forum.
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12-05-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Such a pleasant intro...enjoy your stay.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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12-05-2013, 02:49 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Thank you for telling me what I believe. I've been confused because I thought I was seeking Truth, but apparently I am just apathetic. I had no idea that I have left no room for the possibility any sort of consciousness behind the big bang. You are the prophet I have waited for my entire life. Drinking Beverage

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12-05-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 02:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Thank you for telling me what I believe. I've been confused because I thought I was seeking Truth, but apparently I am just apathetic. I had no idea that I have left no room for the possibility any sort of consciousness behind the big bang. You are the prophet I have waited for my entire life. Drinking Beverage

Your indignation is noted, both two repliers.

Obviously I didn't intend to preach to you, and this post is irrelevant to those who might leave the big answer open-ended.

But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?

I'd appreciate some actual engagement and discussion here, if possible, please.
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12-05-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 02:56 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Thank you for telling me what I believe. I've been confused because I thought I was seeking Truth, but apparently I am just apathetic. I had no idea that I have left no room for the possibility any sort of consciousness behind the big bang. You are the prophet I have waited for my entire life. Drinking Beverage

Your indignation is noted, both two repliers.

Obviously I didn't intend to preach to you, and this post is irrelevant to those who might leave the big answer open-ended.

But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?

I'd appreciate some actual engagement and discussion here, if possible, please.

I do think there is no god. I have many good reasons to think this.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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12-05-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:00 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:56 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Your indignation is noted, both two repliers.

Obviously I didn't intend to preach to you, and this post is irrelevant to those who might leave the big answer open-ended.

But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?

I'd appreciate some actual engagement and discussion here, if possible, please.

I do think there is no god. I have many good reasons to think this.

Why would you even bother responding to my post if you were going to give such short, cryptic answers? See, this was the 'apathy' i was referring to. And, while i wasn't directly applying apathy to you, per-say, you seems to have done the job for me.

care to expound? I'm not here to rant and rave or shoot you down, so could you elaborate and just exactly how belief in [/b]no[b] god is so plausible?
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12-05-2013, 03:06 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Can't comment until I know what you think a god is.

Do you mean to say creator?

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-05-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 02:56 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Thank you for telling me what I believe. I've been confused because I thought I was seeking Truth, but apparently I am just apathetic. I had no idea that I have left no room for the possibility any sort of consciousness behind the big bang. You are the prophet I have waited for my entire life. Drinking Beverage

Your indignation is noted, both two repliers.

Obviously I didn't intend to preach to you, and this post is irrelevant to those who might leave the big answer open-ended.

But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?

I'd appreciate some actual engagement and discussion here, if possible, please.

What you are describing would be the Gnostic Atheist: I KNOW there is no god! Those are very few and far between. Most of us fall into the Agnostic Atheist category where we have been convinced through evidence (or the lack there of) that there are no gods as described by the major religions. However we usually add the caveat that you cannot disprove a watchmaker god who then never interacted with the universe or Spinoza's god.

In much the same way you cannot disprove that there is a teacup floating in orbit around Saturn you cannot disprove the possible existence of a deist god. However the odds seem to be stacked against them. We do not yet understand exactly what caused the big bang (though we are getting much closer) we do have a working model of the universe from the first milliseconds after the big bang. The God of the Gaps (which is what you seem to be proposing) is an argument for now but every day we are learning more and more and those gaps are getting fewer and farther between. Now maybe we will never close every gap but we seem to have the ability to close most of them.

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12-05-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
The drumroll...

(12-05-2013 02:41 PM)Isserus Wrote:  There is no scientific consensus about where exactly everything truly came from, before the big bang.

The flying leap...

(12-05-2013 02:41 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Evidence, or dare I say, proof for god?

If "nobody knows," that's kinda the end of the conversation, ain't it? And how come trees come from seeds, cats from kittens, planets from dust; but rather than follow the trend of like all of fucking nature and derive from something simple, the universe is supposed to come from the most complex thing possible.

You call that skepticism?

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12-05-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:00 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I do think there is no god. I have many good reasons to think this.

Why would you even bother responding to my post if you were going to give such short, cryptic answers? See, this was the 'apathy' i was referring to. And, while i wasn't directly applying apathy to you, per-say, you seems to have done the job for me.

care to expound? I'm not here to rant and rave or shoot you down, so could you elaborate and just exactly how belief in [/b]no[b] god is so plausible?

That isn't apathy, it's that we get tired of talking about the same thing over and over with theists who drop in here. So, what do you mean by "god"? Some being rather than some event who/that created the universe? Is this being aware of earth?

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