The Atheist cop out
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12-05-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 02:56 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Thank you for telling me what I believe. I've been confused because I thought I was seeking Truth, but apparently I am just apathetic. I had no idea that I have left no room for the possibility any sort of consciousness behind the big bang. You are the prophet I have waited for my entire life. Drinking Beverage

Your indignation is noted, both two repliers.

Obviously I didn't intend to preach to you, and this post is irrelevant to those who might leave the big answer open-ended.

But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?

I'd appreciate some actual engagement and discussion here, if possible, please.

As an atheist, I lack belief that the gods of the religious exist. That is not to say I know for a fact that there is no entity with such powers that humanity would label it as divine. I find the reality of such a being to be highly improbable and completely superfluous to humanity's ability to understand the cosmos. I have yet to come across any information that a super-powered entity exists. I'm willing to entertain your evidence when you get around to presenting it rather than make broad sweeping generalizations about what I do and don't believe.

Engaging enough for you?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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12-05-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
What Revenant said. I will also post a link to the spectrum of theistic probability::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of...robability
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12-05-2013, 03:28 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Why would you even bother responding to my post if you were going to give such short, cryptic answers? See, this was the 'apathy' i was referring to. And, while i wasn't directly applying apathy to you, per-say, you seems to have done the job for me.

care to expound? I'm not here to rant and rave or shoot you down, so could you elaborate and just exactly how belief in [/b]no god is so plausible?

That isn't apathy, it's that we get tired of talking about the same thing over and over with theists who drop in here. So, what do you mean by "god"? Some being rather than some event who/that created the universe? Is this being aware of earth?
*sigh*
If i must be the bad guy in order to stimulate discussion...in a [b]discussionforum, then i'll indulge your barbaric trend.

I am speaking of god as a concept, a means of initiation, creation etc. Does that help? I apologize if i was no clear before.

Again, I'm not theist, thanks for reading my original post -_-'

And my point was if you indeed believe there is no god(as a general, super-natural being, who may have no perceivable form even compatible with our current dimensionality), then there is an obligation to provide some alternative, isn't there?

This isn't a witch hunt, and I'm not dispelling all the advancements made in understanding the origins of the big bang...please act accordingly.
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12-05-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:26 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:56 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Your indignation is noted, both two repliers.

Obviously I didn't intend to preach to you, and this post is irrelevant to those who might leave the big answer open-ended.

But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?

I'd appreciate some actual engagement and discussion here, if possible, please.

As an atheist, I lack belief that the gods of the religious exist. That is not to say I know for a fact that there is no entity with such powers that humanity would label it as divine. I find the reality of such a being to be highly improbable and completely superfluous to humanity's ability to understand the cosmos. I have yet to come across any information that a super-powered entity exists. I'm willing to entertain your evidence when you get around to presenting it rather than make broad sweeping generalizations about what I do and don't believe.

Engaging enough for you?

I appreciate your reply.
sweeping generalizations? Sorry but, while i may have made some minor generalizations, I think my main question was pretty specific. It's kind of the topic of this thread. If you read it carefully you'll note that i didn't exactly intend to open up a theist probability chart. As i've said, i'm no theist.
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12-05-2013, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 03:41 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:00 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I do think there is no god. I have many good reasons to think this.

Why would you even bother responding to my post if you were going to give such short, cryptic answers? See, this was the 'apathy' i was referring to. And, while i wasn't directly applying apathy to you, per-say, you seems to have done the job for me.

care to expound? I'm not here to rant and rave or shoot you down, so could you elaborate and just exactly how belief in [/b]no[b] god is so plausible?

The answers are not cryptic. They are as literal and clear as I could make them. Any extra meaning, emotions, purpose, etc... is all in your head.

Literally I think the very idea of god in standard theology is a being made of contradictions. Because of the three big things christians give to him.

All loving, all powerful, all knowing, perfect, and omnipresent(sometimes).

My own contention is that an inter-dimensional being wouldn't be a god by definition since it would have limits, and be imperfect.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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12-05-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Too much side stepping, never cared for the agnostic labels (which is just a technicality). I know for a fact there are no gods. I use "fact" and "god" as it's commonly used.

I know for a fact similarly in the way I know for a fact that a magical dragon isn't sitting on my lawn or anywhere else. The claims of such don't hold up to evidence and reason, and claims that indirectly relate to disclaiming magical dragons do hold up to evidence and reason.
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12-05-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:31 PM)Isserus Wrote:  If you read it carefully you'll note that i didn't exactly intend to open up a theist probability chart. As i've said, i'm no theist.

I posted the link because I thought it might clear up your misunderstandings of atheism and agnosticism; you seem to think atheism is a "belief." It is a lack of belief in deities. It doesn't have to provide alternatives to anything.

A/gnosticism is a claim of knowledge or no knowledge. A/theism is a statement of whether or not a person believes in deities. Most atheists are not gnostic atheists. Richard Dawkins is not, for example.

Quote:But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?
As an atheist, I lack belief in gods. That's different from "there is no god." I find deities to be highly unlikely, but if I was presented with evidence, I could change my mind.
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12-05-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:28 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  That isn't apathy, it's that we get tired of talking about the same thing over and over with theists who drop in here. So, what do you mean by "god"? Some being rather than some event who/that created the universe? Is this being aware of earth?
*sigh*
If i must be the bad guy in order to stimulate discussion...in a discussionforum, then i'll indulge your barbaric trend.

I am speaking of god as a concept, a means of initiation, creation etc. Does that help? I apologize if i was no clear before.

Again, I'm not theist, thanks for reading my original post -_-'

And my point was if you indeed believe there is no god(as a general, super-natural being, who may have no perceivable form even compatible with our current dimensionality), then there is an obligation to provide some alternative, isn't there?

This isn't a witch hunt, and I'm not dispelling all the advancements made in understanding the origins of the big bang...please act accordingly.

You are way too much on the defensive. I wasn't attacking, I am still trying to figure out what you mean by "god" if you are not a theist.

Obviously we can't perceive what we can't perceive, so if there is some being out there that we cannot perceive, we will never know.

Anything is possible, earth could be like an ant hill, and that hill could be in a forest we call universe. And some day a little boy looking like a giant to us will come by and poke the ant hill with a stick. And people will fall to their knees and pray to him for mercy.

What I am saying is that we don't even know our limitations, because there is nothing to measure them against.

So how are we to know if there is some being out there who farted and inadvertently created the big bang?

We used to think we knew everything when we thought the world was flat.

Who says we know everything now that we know about the universe and the big bang? Maybe the universe is a tiny part of something a lot bigger.

So, yes, there may be any number of things and beings out there that we know nothing about. And they may and may not have caused the big bang.

Is that what you mean by god?

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12-05-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:34 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Why would you even bother responding to my post if you were going to give such short, cryptic answers? See, this was the 'apathy' i was referring to. And, while i wasn't directly applying apathy to you, per-say, you seems to have done the job for me.

care to expound? I'm not here to rant and rave or shoot you down, so could you elaborate and just exactly how belief in [/b]no god is so plausible?

The answers are not cryptic. They are as literal and clear as I could make them. Any extra meaning, emotions, purpose, etc... is all in your head.

Literally I think the very idea of god in standard theology is a being made of contradictions. Because of the three big things christians give to him.
[b]While i understand why you might go immediately to christianity, i gave no such indication i was talking about the christian god. I've said much to the contrary. I'm getting a little tired myself. tired of having to point out things i've never said and again point to what i did. It's hard not to see this as a misunderstanding, but rather it looks almost as though it's intentional. lord.

All loving, all powerful, all knowing, perfect, and omnipresent(sometimes).
yes, we've all heard this problem in our intro to phil class. again, i wasn't specifically addressing the chirstian god. I would however like to say that if not limited by our space time, i don't see how h's uncertainty principle can apply.
My own contention is that an inter-dimensional being wouldn't be a god by definition since it would have limits, and be imperfect.
I said extra-dimensional, existing above and beyond...somehow
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12-05-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:39 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:31 PM)Isserus Wrote:  If you read it carefully you'll note that i didn't exactly intend to open up a theist probability chart. As i've said, i'm no theist.

I posted the link because I thought it might clear up your misunderstandings of atheism and agnosticism; you seem to think atheism is a "belief." It is a lack of belief in deities. It doesn't have to provide alternatives to anything.

A/gnosticism is a claim of knowledge or no knowledge. A/theism is a statement of whether or not a person believes in deities. Most atheists are not gnostic atheists. Richard Dawkins is not, for example.

Quote:But as an atheist, do you not believe there is no god?
As an atheist, I lack belief in gods. That's different from "there is no god." I find deities to be highly unlikely, but if I was presented with evidence, I could change my mind.
Atheism very much is a belief, friend. "It" might not have to provide alternatives but atheism is a belief within a person, it is not the whole person. you as a person, as a rational thinker are less obligated...how?
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