The Atheist cop out
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12-05-2013, 04:08 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:56 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Are you advocating for a "God of the gaps"?

I'm only advocating for possibilities and trying to debunk what i see as suborn conclusions, when no one can know for sure. god of the gaps? Maybe, sure.

But more accuracy, more specifically, I'm(as i have been from the start) making the case that even if one was to hold to the belief that there is no particular god(s) as described by current religion, isn't some answer still left over? Isn't the atheist still obligated to provide an answer of some kind? And if so(which i believe), couldn't the possible answer to that big question be related to an extra-dimensional being of some kind? Known or unknown? I'm not trying to pivot, rather, i'm trying to not be held down by the traditional framework of what we currently know of gods.

It feels like i'm going a bit in circles, and i think it's because i am. So i do apologize. I'm making the point that how can one say that their atheism excuses them from the obligation of answering that question?

Did you read what I wrote about that on page 2? I don't think so, or you are ignoring it.

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12-05-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:28 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  That isn't apathy, it's that we get tired of talking about the same thing over and over with theists who drop in here. So, what do you mean by "god"? Some being rather than some event who/that created the universe? Is this being aware of earth?
*sigh*
If i must be the bad guy in order to stimulate discussion...in a discussionforum, then i'll indulge your barbaric trend.

I am speaking of god as a concept, a means of initiation, creation etc. Does that help? I apologize if i was no clear before.

Again, I'm not theist, thanks for reading my original post -_-'

And my point was if you indeed believe there is no god(as a general, super-natural being, who may have no perceivable form even compatible with our current dimensionality), then there is an obligation to provide some alternative, isn't there?

This isn't a witch hunt, and I'm not dispelling all the advancements made in understanding the origins of the big bang...please act accordingly.

Look, you kick the door open with a pugnacious thread title, then you get offended at a negative reaction. Seriously, dude? Consider

There is no evidence for any gods, therefore I don't have a belief in any gods.
That is not the same as believing there is no god.

Not believing a complex being (god) created our universe does not obligate me to provide an alternative explanation; "I don't know" is an intellectually honest and acceptable position.

It does, however, require us to seek an answer.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-05-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 03:49 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:39 PM)amyb Wrote:  I posted the link because I thought it might clear up your misunderstandings of atheism and agnosticism; you seem to think atheism is a "belief." It is a lack of belief in deities. It doesn't have to provide alternatives to anything.

A/gnosticism is a claim of knowledge or no knowledge. A/theism is a statement of whether or not a person believes in deities. Most atheists are not gnostic atheists. Richard Dawkins is not, for example.

As an atheist, I lack belief in gods. That's different from "there is no god." I find deities to be highly unlikely, but if I was presented with evidence, I could change my mind.
Atheism very much is a belief, friend. "It" might not have to provide alternatives but atheism is a belief within a person, it is not the whole person. you as a person, as a rational thinker are less obligated...how?

No, atheism is a lack of belief in any gods. It is not a belief.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-05-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
I must have the bubonic plague, theists tend to ignore my comments, and the OP here, (who says he's not a theist) won't comment either. Sadcryface2

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12-05-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:07 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:02 PM)amyb Wrote:  It is a lack of belief in god. That is not a belief. The burden of proof is on the person making extraordinary claims (in this case, god(s) exist(s)).

and no, I don't see any need to provide an alternative theory. Atheism is "lack of belief in god(s)." That's all it is. Atheists are under no personal obligation to provide anything. If they don't know how the universe came to be, it's okay to say "I don't know how the universe came to be." And scientists will look for answers, but that's not out of any perceived obligation, it's scientific curiosity.

No, I'm not ignoring and I'm not acting as though attacked, that would be you... I did not make any generalizations, I just attempted to explain what atheism and agnosticism are, and that neither of these things automatically obligates a person to make an alternative theory of anything. But you're obviously a troll, so I'm done here.

Yes, I'm a troll so please stiff arm me further and don't waste your time with the likes of me. I'll continue to wait for other beasts, like myself, to engage me. Once again, as i've tried to say from the start, i'm asking how atheism excuses any person from having to answer the big question. because, if it doesn't, then you don't know, just like the rest of us, making the title of atheism seem rather pointless. that was my contention.

Atheism is just one conclusion about one answer.

However many of us have looked at our religious past and saw a very different picture. A harmful barrage of bad ideas that can be measured in terms of human lives. Some lives were wasted in pursuit of nothing, and others have killed, neglected, or harmed themselves and others all because of religion.

From analyzing this religion we have the motivation to say, NO. You have the right to autonomy. Harm your self all you want but do not harm others based on ideas that have no evidence.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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12-05-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  I must have the bubonic plague, theists tend to ignore my comments, and the OP here, (who says he's not a theist) won't comment either. Sadcryface2

Don't feel bad I get the same cold shoulder most of the time.

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12-05-2013, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 04:49 PM by Chas.)
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:07 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:02 PM)amyb Wrote:  It is a lack of belief in god. That is not a belief. The burden of proof is on the person making extraordinary claims (in this case, god(s) exist(s)).

and no, I don't see any need to provide an alternative theory. Atheism is "lack of belief in god(s)." That's all it is. Atheists are under no personal obligation to provide anything. If they don't know how the universe came to be, it's okay to say "I don't know how the universe came to be." And scientists will look for answers, but that's not out of any perceived obligation, it's scientific curiosity.

No, I'm not ignoring and I'm not acting as though attacked, that would be you... I did not make any generalizations, I just attempted to explain what atheism and agnosticism are, and that neither of these things automatically obligates a person to make an alternative theory of anything. But you're obviously a troll, so I'm done here.

Yes, I'm a troll so please stiff arm me further and don't waste your time with the likes of me. I'll continue to wait for other beasts, like myself, to engage me. Once again, as i've tried to say from the start, i'm asking how atheism excuses any person from having to answer the big question. because, if it doesn't, then you don't know, just like the rest of us, making the title of atheism seem rather pointless. that was my contention.

No, atheism is in no way pointless. The belief that a god caused or created everything is an unsupported belief that ends inquiry.

Atheism leaves the inquiry open since the starting position is "I don't know".

Why would you think that atheism excuses not asking questions? That makes no sense.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-05-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Another one?

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Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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12-05-2013, 04:28 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:07 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Yes, I'm a troll so please stiff arm me further and don't waste your time with the likes of me. I'll continue to wait for other beasts, like myself, to engage me. Once again, as i've tried to say from the start, i'm asking how atheism excuses any person from having to answer the big question. because, if it doesn't, then you don't know, just like the rest of us, making the title of atheism seem rather pointless. that was my contention.

No, atheism is in no way pointless. The belief that a god cased or created everything is an unsupported belief that ends inquiry.

Atheism leaves the inquiry open since the starting position is "I don't know".

Why would you think that atheism excuses not asking questions? That makes no sense.

Because the dude has a very pedestrian view of what atheism is and should probably just shoo.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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12-05-2013, 04:28 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:23 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  I must have the bubonic plague, theists tend to ignore my comments, and the OP here, (who says he's not a theist) won't comment either. Sadcryface2

Don't feel bad I get the same cold shoulder most of the time.

Well, most people have you two on 'ignore'. Didn't anyone tell you? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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