The Atheist cop out
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12-05-2013, 04:32 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:23 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Don't feel bad I get the same cold shoulder most of the time.

Well, most people have you two on 'ignore'. Didn't anyone tell you? Consider

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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-05-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, atheism is in no way pointless. The belief that a god cased or created everything is an unsupported belief that ends inquiry.

Atheism leaves the inquiry open since the starting position is "I don't know".

Why would you think that atheism excuses not asking questions? That makes no sense.

QFT.

Guy don't wanna talk to any gnostic atheist, guy wants to talk about 'em.

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12-05-2013, 05:22 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:56 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Are you advocating for a "God of the gaps"?

I'm only advocating for possibilities and trying to debunk what i see as suborn conclusions, when no one can know for sure. god of the gaps? Maybe, sure.

But more accuracy, more specifically, I'm(as i have been from the start) making the case that even if one was to hold to the belief that there is no particular god(s) as described by current religion, isn't some answer still left over? Isn't the atheist still obligated to provide an answer of some kind? And if so(which i believe), couldn't the possible answer to that big question be related to an extra-dimensional being of some kind? Known or unknown? I'm not trying to pivot, rather, i'm trying to not be held down by the traditional framework of what we currently know of gods.

It feels like i'm going a bit in circles, and i think it's because i am. So i do apologize. I'm making the point that how can one say that their atheism excuses them from the obligation of answering that question?

Why do you feel the atheist is obligated to answer these questions? Or anyone, for that matter?

The burden of proof resides with those who make the claims.

eg. Someone claims that a god or multiple god exists, it is up to them to provide the proof to convince others.

Since the belief in god or multiple gods is faith-based and faith is the opposite of proof, then proving a god exists is pointless.

If these were important questions, we might try to have a go at answering them, but they're not. Realistically the answers that people are trying to figure out these days are things that apply to current issues, and demands of the human population. And it's not just atheists who are trying to figure out these answers.

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12-05-2013, 05:49 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Since I don't believe unicorns exist, am I an Aunicornist? No faeries? Afaerieist? Pretty sure Sasquatch doesn't exist, but I leave room for doubt so that must make me an Agbigfootist. I love labels. I could do this for at least the next ten seconds.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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12-05-2013, 05:57 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 03:28 PM)Isserus Wrote:  *sigh*
If i must be the bad guy in order to stimulate discussion...in a discussionforum, then i'll indulge your barbaric trend.

I am speaking of god as a concept, a means of initiation, creation etc. Does that help? I apologize if i was no clear before.

Again, I'm not theist, thanks for reading my original post -_-'

And my point was if you indeed believe there is no god(as a general, super-natural being, who may have no perceivable form even compatible with our current dimensionality), then there is an obligation to provide some alternative, isn't there?

This isn't a witch hunt, and I'm not dispelling all the advancements made in understanding the origins of the big bang...please act accordingly.

Look, you kick the door open with a pugnacious thread title, then you get offended at a negative reaction. Seriously, dude? Consider

There is no evidence for any gods, therefore I don't have a belief in any gods.
That is not the same as believing there is no god.

Not believing a complex being (god) created our universe does not obligate me to provide an alternative explanation; "I don't know" is an intellectually honest and acceptable position.

It does, however, require us to seek an answer.
No evidence? of any kind? highly debatable, but that isn't really on topic anyway.
Really, I kicked down the door? what imagery. I'm not offended by any negative reaction. I was met, at first, with feeble responses and people looking down their nose, but it's too be expected and i'm over it. I have no problem with any of it and it's a waste of tie to discuss it.
I don't know is an honest answer and nothing i've said should lead you or anyone to believe that i see that is wrong somehow. What i did say, since the start, is that there is room for alternative, open-minded, creative, scientific/pseudo-scientific talk...much like you'd find in any true, honest, humble, subjective discussion.
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12-05-2013, 06:03 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 05:22 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:04 PM)Isserus Wrote:  I'm only advocating for possibilities and trying to debunk what i see as suborn conclusions, when no one can know for sure. god of the gaps? Maybe, sure.

But more accuracy, more specifically, I'm(as i have been from the start) making the case that even if one was to hold to the belief that there is no particular god(s) as described by current religion, isn't some answer still left over? Isn't the atheist still obligated to provide an answer of some kind? And if so(which i believe), couldn't the possible answer to that big question be related to an extra-dimensional being of some kind? Known or unknown? I'm not trying to pivot, rather, i'm trying to not be held down by the traditional framework of what we currently know of gods.

It feels like i'm going a bit in circles, and i think it's because i am. So i do apologize. I'm making the point that how can one say that their atheism excuses them from the obligation of answering that question?

Why do you feel the atheist is obligated to answer these questions? Or anyone, for that matter?

The burden of proof resides with those who make the claims.

eg. Someone claims that a god or multiple god exists, it is up to them to provide the proof to convince others.

Since the belief in god or multiple gods is faith-based and faith is the opposite of proof, then proving a god exists is pointless.

If these were important questions, we might try to have a go at answering them, but they're not. Realistically the answers that people are trying to figure out these days are things that apply to current issues, and demands of the human population. And it's not just atheists who are trying to figure out these answers.

I've said many times now, this is not true to what i believe. give me a break, and stop treating me like some bible thumbing, brain washed idiot. I said the burden of proof would be on those making the claims, for those specific gods, religions, etc. What i did suggest is that a much more broad god(super-natural/extra-dimensional being) is plausible, since there is both a lack of proof for the exact origin for the universe, as well as theory to suggest it. And there's of course, theory to dispose it as well too. The point is the discussion shouldn't just end because someone says they're an atheist. that's really all i've ever said.
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12-05-2013, 06:06 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
The burden of proof for the origin of the universe is every bit on the atheist, as it is on the theist. It's everyone burden, for those who choose to discuss, and think about it, no more or less than anyone else. Simply throwing up, I'm an Atheist!" means nothing to that end.
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12-05-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Okay, class dismissed....

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12-05-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:06 PM)Isserus Wrote:  The burden of proof for the origin of the universe is every bit on the atheist, as it is on the theist. It's everyone burden, for those who choose to discuss, and think about it, no more or less than anyone else. Simply throwing up, I'm an Atheist!" means nothing to that end.

That's why people are investigating the origin of the universe. Hobo

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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12-05-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 05:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Since I don't believe unicorns exist, am I an Aunicornist? No faeries? Afaerieist? Pretty sure Sasquatch doesn't exist, but I leave room for doubt so that must make me an Agbigfootist. I love labels. I could do this for at least the next ten seconds.

This completely disregards what i've been saying. Without getting further off topic ad into discussing why unicorns existing is a harsh reality to believe(Not broad concepts of extra-dimensional beings, as their nature would suggest), I would like to point out that i also dislike labels, and i'm not stressing the label so much as i am stressing the defeated potential discussions when somebody says they're an atheist.
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