The Atheist cop out
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12-05-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 06:06 PM)Isserus Wrote:  The burden of proof for the origin of the universe is every bit on the atheist, as it is on the theist. It's everyone burden, for those who choose to discuss, and think about it, no more or less than anyone else. Simply throwing up, I'm an Atheist!" means nothing to that end.

That's why people are investigating the origin of the universe. Hobo

Yes, and they've been at it. it isn't futile, of course. I'm in no way suggesting that it's futile, only wishing that people could see waving the atheist wand can only defeat certain specific gods, not the possibility of a more broad concept of god ae perhaps even a formless, shapeless god. perhaps part intelligent design, part accidental phenomenon. And there are ways in which such a broad thing can be discussed, remain logical, based in science, but still remain subjective. The whole point of the thread was to stimulate that, to acknowledge that since we do not know for sure, then we should never get to use the phrase "I'm not obligated, as an atheist."
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12-05-2013, 06:15 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:10 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 05:49 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Since I don't believe unicorns exist, am I an Aunicornist? No faeries? Afaerieist? Pretty sure Sasquatch doesn't exist, but I leave room for doubt so that must make me an Agbigfootist. I love labels. I could do this for at least the next ten seconds.

This completely disregards what i've been saying. Without getting further off topic ad into discussing why unicorns existing is a harsh reality to believe(Not broad concepts of extra-dimensional beings, as their nature would suggest), I would like to point out that i also dislike labels, and i'm not stressing the label so much as i am stressing the defeated potential discussions when somebody says they're an atheist.

Have you seen the first cause arguments and how badly constructed they are?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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12-05-2013, 06:17 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:14 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 06:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  That's why people are investigating the origin of the universe. Hobo

Yes, and they've been at it. it isn't futile, of course. I'm in no way suggesting that it's futile, only wishing that people could see waving the atheist wand can only defeat certain specific gods, not the possibility of a more broad concept of god ae perhaps even a formless, shapeless god. perhaps part intelligent design, part accidental phenomenon. And there are ways in which such a broad thing can be discussed, remain logical, based in science, but still remain subjective. The whole point of the thread was to stimulate that, to acknowledge that since we do not know for sure, then we should never get to use the phrase "I'm not obligated, as an atheist."

That's the point. If their magical being lacks the qualities of god, then why call it a god?

If it's only a superior species, lets call it that.

Also you don't have to know everything in the world to know that a being made of contradictions simply cannot exist.

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12-05-2013, 06:18 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:07 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Okay, class dismissed....

Is this not a discussion forum? What other purpose is there, here? This should be where you contribute to thoughts on the origin of the universe. Theories that involve science and other new theories, many of which are not mutually exclusive with deities or other possibilities of extra-dimensional beings. To break free from the shackles of stale religion. Otherwise you're just a bunch of atheist patting each other on the back for coming to the conclusion that current organized religion is bs.

well, give yourselves a round of applause.
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12-05-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
You aren't here to discuss, you are here to get people to agree with you. That's not a discussion.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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12-05-2013, 06:23 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 04:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  I must have the bubonic plague, theists tend to ignore my comments, and the OP here, (who says he's not a theist) won't comment either. Sadcryface2

I've mentioned so many times, even just in the op alone, that i am not a theist. Do i really need to point out the irony? It's much more likely that i over-looked your post, more than it is i ignored you. I apologize. It would seem no one is willing to engage me in subjective discussion but rather find ways to dismiss everything i say. As a result, i am one against many...sad it had to turn out that way. in any case, it's easy to lose track of so many posts. Not to say that i didn't expect replies, but was hoping to not have to feel so alone in my simple desire to discuss openly.
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12-05-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:18 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 06:07 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Okay, class dismissed....

Is this not a discussion forum? What other purpose is there, here? This should be where you contribute to thoughts on the origin of the universe. Theories that involve science and other new theories, many of which are not mutually exclusive with deities or other possibilities of extra-dimensional beings. To break free from the shackles of stale religion. Otherwise you're just a bunch of atheist patting each other on the back for coming to the conclusion that current organized religion is bs.

well, give yourselves a round of applause.

Extra-dimensional beings may have started the universe. Not a big deal for me.

It's the idea that you can grant something god status because that species is able to do things that humans can not do, has no justification. Because it's definition prevents them from being that.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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12-05-2013, 06:40 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:23 PM)Isserus Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 04:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  I must have the bubonic plague, theists tend to ignore my comments, and the OP here, (who says he's not a theist) won't comment either. Sadcryface2

I've mentioned so many times, even just in the op alone, that i am not a theist. Do i really need to point out the irony? It's much more likely that i over-looked your post, more than it is i ignored you. I apologize. It would seem no one is willing to engage me in subjective discussion but rather find ways to dismiss everything i say. As a result, i am one against many...sad it had to turn out that way. in any case, it's easy to lose track of so many posts. Not to say that i didn't expect replies, but was hoping to not have to feel so alone in my simple desire to discuss openly.

An ethical causal factor to the cosmos, as we know it; that's a tall order.
We do see good at the secular level, often tied up confusingly with seemingly contradictory issues. Perhaps the 'real good', decency, caring, kindness, and genuine concern, when untangled from all the confusion, tribalism, egoism, and dogma is a launching pad for contemplating a higher ineffable universal goodness?? Who knows?Huh
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12-05-2013, 06:57 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 07:19 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:14 PM)Isserus Wrote:  The whole point of the thread was to stimulate that, to acknowledge that since we do not know for sure, then we should never get to use the phrase "I'm not obligated, as an atheist."

Summary dialogue:

Izzy - Could a god have created the universe?
Agnostic Atheist - Yes, but no proof has been found that leads us to believe this.

Izzy - I feel you are obligated to propose an alternative answer if you don't think a god was the creator.
AA - I am all ears as to what scientists tell us about the origins of the universe.
New discoveries are being made by the leading minds of our generation, we'll take the cue from them after their proposed hypotheses are tested and confirmed.

Izzy - No, no, no! Each of you athiests are obligated to find an alternative to a god created universe. Stop hiding behind the phrase "I don't know"!
AA - But I don't know.

Izzy - Then God it is.
AA - What?

Edit: for some unknown reason (Goddit) I wrote theist when I meant atheist...

"Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."- Mark Twain in Eruption
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12-05-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 06:14 PM)Isserus Wrote:  The whole point of the thread was to stimulate that, to acknowledge that since we do not know for sure, then we should never get to use the phrase "I'm not obligated, as an atheist."

Summary dialogue:

Izzy - Could a god have created the universe?
Agnostic Theist - Yes, but no proof has been found that leads us to beleive this.

Izzy - I feel you are obligated to propose an alternative answer if you don't think a god was the creator.
AT - I am all ears as to what scientists tell us about the origins of the universe.
New discoveries are being made by the leading minds of our generation, we'll take the cue from them after their proposed hypotheses are tested and confirmed.

Izzy - No, no, no! Each of you athiests are obligated to find an alternative to a god created universe. Stop hiding behind the phrase "I don't know"!
AT - But I don't know.

Izzy - Then God it is.
AT - What?

RE point 1. The believers want God to be absolutely good, along with the 5 three Os
A creative experimental being if(God) would lack such criteria and thus be non God....e.g an all powerful source indulging in an experiment.

(2) As for the evolved scientists, could there not be creative intelligence, malevolent if you life, also evolved, or emanating from some unknown process,leaps and bounds ahead of our evolutionary process, elsewhere in the cosmos?

I don't know either!
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