The Atheist cop out
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16-05-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 02:41 PM)Isserus Wrote:  Skepticism. When it comes down to it, nobody knows when the origin of the known universe, anything and everything started or where it sprang about from. And i do of course realize that when you take it back to that singularity, asking a question like "when" or "before" starts to break down and almost become entirely inapplicable.

However, where why meets how, and touches down to now, is there really no room left for when? Or, for that matter, what came before?

This has nagged and nagged at mankind for a long time and not just "theists," but rather all people.
I agree up to this point.

Quote:Your own, personal apathy is not reflective of some of the more brilliant thinkers that have come and gone throughout history.
Since you addressed no one in particular, I'm left to assume "your" means all atheists, at least all atheists on this site. That's a mighty big leap. I really wish people with contrary opinions - theists or otherwise - would hang around here and get to know people a little before trucking out the accusations (noting, there have been a handful of exceptions). The one and only thing all atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god. Any other generality is inaccurate. Period. Any atheist who is truly apathetic probably couldn't be bothered coming to this site due to the apathy.

Quote:There is no scientific consensus about where exactly everything truly came from, before the big bang.

Evidence, or dare I say, proof for god?
Hardly.
But! Room for God. A general, extra-dimensional, super-natural being(yes, aliens too)? Why the heck not?
I would personally change "hardly" to "none", but otherwise I agree. We don't know so the possibilities are open. However, "why the heck not?" starts to push it. I'd rather be asking "why?" - meaning there may or may not be a god outside the universe, but since I don't know either way, I'd rather start with "I don't know" and work from there. Until I see evidence of such a god, the question remains "why?" or "why should I believe there is one?"

Quote:To say, that because you are an atheist, you, unlike your theist brethren, are truly not "obligated" to answer that question is such a huge cop out.
To not have to explain how any one(or many) deities in particular created the universe, true, you are not obligated. Anybody can make up a religion(although frankly any religion i make up is not going to have the historical, geographical harmony that some of the more major religions have) and exclaim their particular god did it.
But to come down with such resolve and say there is no chance for any known and unknown god-concepts seems rather arrogant.
I don't think most atheist go quite that far. I myself believe no earthly-conceived god exists and it is also highly unlikely that any god exists anywhere. But "highly unlikely" isn't the same as the resolute "doesn't exist" that you're speaking of. I'm pretty sure those atheists are few and far between. I also think you're confusing 2 different things. Atheists do tend to say that the burden of proof is on the theist to prove that their god exists. That's an entirely different subject from establishing the origin of the universe. I don't think the burden of proof regarding the origin of the universe is necessarily on anyone - unless they have a specific claim as to what that origin is.

Quote:Are we to just leave it at that then? Do we surrender to the Buddhist way and assume we are simply incapable of understanding such a massive headache of a truth?
What makes you assume all atheists or even most atheists think so?

Quote:I see the obvious bitter distane many of you would have for organized religion, and rightfully so. But to thereby right off all religion, to then go about claiming that no truth can be found is a bitter, narrow-minded, emotion-based statement of pure diminishement.
Quite the opposite, atheists that are active about it at all SEEK truth.

=======

Having read this entire thread, I also want to say I concur with those who have said atheism is not a belief.

theism = having a belief in god
atheism = not having a belief in god (the prefix a, simply means "not" or "without")

Not having a belief can't be having a belief anymore than not having a rock can be having a rock.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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16-05-2013, 12:50 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Is it just me, or has this guy been a condescending prick from the get-go?

I may be a prick, but I'm never condescending. Wink

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16-05-2013, 01:02 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
Could someone please give me a summary of this topic?

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16-05-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(16-05-2013 01:02 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Could someone please give me a summary of this topic?

This was a drive by. He hasn't been back since the day he posted this.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-05-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(16-05-2013 01:08 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 01:02 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Could someone please give me a summary of this topic?

This was a drive by. He hasn't been back since the day he posted this.

Ahh okay. Not wasting my time then.

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16-05-2013, 01:13 PM
Re: The Atheist cop out
Beyond not adding anything not heard before it discussed by many here you came on on an assertive accusatory way.

And people here are often sarcastic.and terse.. Especially annoyed at people who tell them what they think.

Atheism and agnostism both have multiple definitions and one isn't better. In times their mutually exclusive but atheism in no way means you're shutting off ideas. It at base means your don't believe any claims of a God or deity sold to be true.
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16-05-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(12-05-2013 06:14 PM)Isserus Wrote:  I'm in no way suggesting that it's futile, only wishing that people could see waving the atheist wand can only defeat certain specific gods, not the possibility of a more broad concept of god ae perhaps even a formless, shapeless god.

Betrand Russell is my patronus.

"That's not the proof I want."
"You'll have such proof as exists. You are the only one responsible for your own wants."
- Isaac Asimov, I, Robot
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16-05-2013, 06:13 PM
The Atheist cop out
Crap, I'm too late. Oh well, guess ill go home.
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17-05-2013, 08:38 AM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(16-05-2013 06:13 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Crap, I'm too late. Oh well, guess ill go home.

That dude joined May 5 and hasn't visited since.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-05-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: The Atheist cop out
(17-05-2013 08:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 06:13 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Crap, I'm too late. Oh well, guess ill go home.

That dude joined May 5 and hasn't visited since.

We're not the most welcoming of boards. Big Grin

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