The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
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05-10-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 09:00 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Resurrection implies a continuity of existence which isn't possible. Recreation of a sort is not strictly excluded. Any simulation is possible if you have infinite computing power. So I guess there's that option.

It a waste, based upon my observance of conservation laws. Undecided

The very reason that god has no identity is that we have identities. At least according to my calculations. You know how I calculate. There's always some o' them dang Gwynnies. Heart

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05-10-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
LOL. If we could resurrect ourselves throughout time then the Jesus story is certainly redundant and unnecessary.

Well....it's unnecessary anyway but that's another thread.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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05-10-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 09:00 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Resurrection implies a continuity of existence which isn't possible. Recreation of a sort is not strictly excluded. Any simulation is possible if you have infinite computing power. So I guess there's that option.


Tangent:

With sufficient computing power, one should be able to simulate a universe. Once we are able to do so, the number of simulated universes would quickly outpace the number of real universes. Therefore could it not only be possible, but on a long enough time line, ever more probable that we exist inside a simulated universe?

/MindFuck Hobo

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05-10-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 09:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 09:00 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Resurrection implies a continuity of existence which isn't possible. Recreation of a sort is not strictly excluded. Any simulation is possible if you have infinite computing power. So I guess there's that option.


Tangent:

With sufficient computing power, one should be able to simulate a universe. Once we are able to do so, the number of simulated universes would quickly outpace the number of real universes. Therefore could it not only be possible, but on a long enough time line, ever more probable that we exist inside a simulated universe?

/MindFuck Hobo

Perhaps, but simulation necessarily requires overhead. I suggested a sufficiently complex structure might recreate a human brain - as, indeed, we have already directly simulated neurons and neural structures - but that's quite a different order of complexity. So, it would take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. Allowing the handwave that a whole universe might be put towards simulating another, and nothing else, if the infinite simulation still and only fits within an infinite simulator of the same order... so what?

It's just invoking a regression which exists in some larger manifold, and that's not, from within, different from the nested or bubbling universe-like forms strung together at the edges of other physical models, and there isn't really any meaningful vocabulary to describe such a situation beyond that from our point of view things look coherent and consistent anyway.

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05-10-2015, 10:32 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 10:18 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 09:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Tangent:

With sufficient computing power, one should be able to simulate a universe. Once we are able to do so, the number of simulated universes would quickly outpace the number of real universes. Therefore could it not only be possible, but on a long enough time line, ever more probable that we exist inside a simulated universe?

/MindFuck Hobo

Perhaps, but simulation necessarily requires overhead. I suggested a sufficiently complex structure might recreate a human brain - as, indeed, we have already directly simulated neurons and neural structures - but that's quite a different order of complexity. So, it would take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. Allowing the handwave that a whole universe might be put towards simulating another, and nothing else, if the infinite simulation still and only fits within an infinite simulator of the same order... so what?

It's just invoking a regression which exists in some larger manifold, and that's not, from within, different from the nested or bubbling universe-like forms strung together at the edges of other physical models, and there isn't really any meaningful vocabulary to describe such a situation beyond that from our point of view things look coherent and consistent anyway.

Why the prophet ain't loved in his hood.

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05-10-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 09:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Tangent:

With sufficient computing power, one should be able to simulate a universe. Once we are able to do so, the number of simulated universes would quickly outpace the number of real universes. Therefore could it not only be possible, but on a long enough time line, ever more probable that we exist inside a simulated universe?

/MindFuck Hobo

A certain philosopher named Nick Bostrom actually believes this. He's the same guy whose book "Superintelligence" freaked out Elon Musk and made him think Skynet is coming in 10 years. But I digress. I hope a civilization intelligent enough to simulate a universe would be responsible enough not to. Otherwise we're more likely than not in one of those simulations already, in which case I'd like to have a word with tech support.
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05-10-2015, 11:15 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(04-10-2015 10:56 PM)FractalHeretic Wrote:  So there's this theory that all of time actually happens at once, the passage of time is an illusion, and the past still exists.

"Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That signifies nothing. For those of us who believe in physics, the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." - Einstein's eulogy to Besso

(04-10-2015 10:56 PM)FractalHeretic Wrote:  Now here's the thought that's robbing me of sleep: if resurrection is ever made possible at any point during the unfathomable amount of time the universe will exist after me, I'll know it the moment I die.

"I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead;
I lift my lids and all is born again.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)"
- Plath

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05-10-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 11:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  "I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead;
I lift my lids and all is born again.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)"
- Plath

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05-10-2015, 11:45 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 10:18 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 09:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Tangent:

With sufficient computing power, one should be able to simulate a universe. Once we are able to do so, the number of simulated universes would quickly outpace the number of real universes. Therefore could it not only be possible, but on a long enough time line, ever more probable that we exist inside a simulated universe?

/MindFuck Hobo

Perhaps, but simulation necessarily requires overhead. I suggested a sufficiently complex structure might recreate a human brain - as, indeed, we have already directly simulated neurons and neural structures - but that's quite a different order of complexity. So, it would take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. Allowing the handwave that a whole universe might be put towards simulating another, and nothing else, if the infinite simulation still and only fits within an infinite simulator of the same order... so what?

It's just invoking a regression which exists in some larger manifold, and that's not, from within, different from the nested or bubbling universe-like forms strung together at the edges of other physical models, and there isn't really any meaningful vocabulary to describe such a situation beyond that from our point of view things look coherent and consistent anyway.


Assuming that you're trying for a perfect 1-to-1 simulation. However what if reality is really far more complex, and we're just experiencing a trimmed down version of it? Maybe reality exists in more than 4 dimensions, but since that's all we experience, it all just works as far as we know; because our particular simulation is simply incapable of going any further?

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06-10-2015, 02:42 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(04-10-2015 11:09 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Question: How do you know you have not already been resurrected?

They'd have to put you into some kind of simulation initially to try and get you acclimatised. They'd maybe give you bigger and bigger hints until ripping you out into the real world in some. Kind. Of. Deathlike. Process.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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