The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
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06-10-2015, 09:22 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 09:27 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
I would say so. I don't see why it couldn't happen, especially if there are multiple Universes. Not saying it does happen, obviously.
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06-10-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(06-10-2015 09:22 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  I would say so. I don't see why it couldn't happen, especially if there are multiple Universes. Not saying it does happen, obviously.

I'm curious, how would multiple universes help?
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06-10-2015, 10:40 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 10:56 PM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(06-10-2015 02:40 PM)FractalHeretic Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 09:22 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  I would say so. I don't see why it couldn't happen, especially if there are multiple Universes. Not saying it does happen, obviously.

I'm curious, how would multiple universes help?

In the case that the multiverse is infinite, for example, there could be an infinite number of possible consciousnesses, and an infinite number of existing consciousnesses. However there could instead be an infinite multiverse in which there's only one Universe that contains consciousness, and all of the others do not.
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06-10-2015, 10:59 PM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(06-10-2015 10:40 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 02:40 PM)FractalHeretic Wrote:  I'm curious, how would multiple universes help?

In the case that the multiverse is infinite, for example, there could be an infinite number of possible consciousnesses, and an infinite number of existing consciousnesses. However there could instead be an infinite multiverse in which there's only one Universe that contains consciousness, and all of the others do not.

This could be, but I don't get the leap to how that could be a resurrection or "afterlife" in any defined way those speak.

Your "legacy" or lineage of interactions with other people and items could go on. Is that what is being refereed to as? Or is there just belief that technology will get to a point where even an ancient rotted brain can be resurrected chemically to it's state of death and energize the mind again.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-10-2015, 11:29 PM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
I guess you could have something akin to reincarnation in an infinite multiverse since there'd be infinite copies of you. For an afterlife though, you'd have to pop into existence as a fully formed adult with memories. I doubt that could spontaneously happen even in an infinite multiverse.

I found what I was looking for: http://nautil.us/issue/29/scaling/life-i...acetime-rp
This article describes the idea that all of time exists at once, unchanging. If so, your life is permanently imprinted on the face of time for all eternity, waiting for someone to eventually scan it and make a copy for whatever reason.
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07-10-2015, 02:43 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 10:18 AM)cjlr Wrote:  So, it would take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. Allowing the handwave that a whole universe might be put towards simulating another, and nothing else, if the infinite simulation still and only fits within an infinite simulator of the same order... so what?

It wouldn't necessarily take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. You could cut out a dimension or few out of the simulation. Suppose the real world actually has 100 spatial dimensions. The inhabitants of that world have limited computer power so they simulate a universe that has only 3 spatial dimensions.

I have often wondered why our universe has only 3 spatial dimensions and not some other higher number. An answer I considered is that our universe is really a computer simulation which was limited to 3 spatial dimensions because that is all the available computing power could handle.

I imagine the first simulations of universes we create will be only have 2 spatial dimensions. It would only take 1/10th of our universe to simulate that universe.
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07-10-2015, 02:49 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(06-10-2015 11:29 PM)FractalHeretic Wrote:  I guess you could have something akin to reincarnation in an infinite multiverse since there'd be infinite copies of you. For an afterlife though, you'd have to pop into existence as a fully formed adult with memories. I doubt that could spontaneously happen even in an infinite multiverse.

I found what I was looking for: http://nautil.us/issue/29/scaling/life-i...acetime-rp
This article describes the idea that all of time exists at once, unchanging. If so, your life is permanently imprinted on the face of time for all eternity, waiting for someone to eventually scan it and make a copy for whatever reason.

Then likewise that person, and the action of them making a scan of you, is also imprinted across all time. Given that assumption, I'm still failing to see what the problem is.

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10-10-2015, 11:43 PM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(07-10-2015 02:43 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 10:18 AM)cjlr Wrote:  So, it would take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. Allowing the handwave that a whole universe might be put towards simulating another, and nothing else, if the infinite simulation still and only fits within an infinite simulator of the same order... so what?

It wouldn't necessarily take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. You could cut out a dimension or few out of the simulation. Suppose the real world actually has 100 spatial dimensions. The inhabitants of that world have limited computer power so they simulate a universe that has only 3 spatial dimensions.

I have often wondered why our universe has only 3 spatial dimensions and not some other higher number. An answer I considered is that our universe is really a computer simulation which was limited to 3 spatial dimensions because that is all the available computing power could handle.

I imagine the first simulations of universes we create will be only have 2 spatial dimensions. It would only take 1/10th of our universe to simulate that universe.

.... I hate to agree with Heywood on anything, but on this he's partially right. The first simulations of universes we created DID only have 2 spacial dimensions... and a very coarse measure for the time quantum.

[Image: nethack.gif]

Then we made the time quantum more managable, but still had 2 spacial dimensions.

[Image: 56066-Legend_of_Zelda,_The_%28Europe%29-2.jpg]

Things have arguably gone downhill from there, despite the addition of a third spacial dimension.

[Image: Mass-Effect-3-Control-Synthesis-Destroy.jpg]

(EDIT: We've simulated universes with 4 spacial dimensions as well, but they don't make intelligible computer games, so no nice screenshots for you.)

So, back to the original topic. Can someone tell me what our working definition of death is, so I can tell which forms of resuscitation count as resurrection?
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11-10-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(05-10-2015 10:18 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 09:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Tangent:

With sufficient computing power, one should be able to simulate a universe. Once we are able to do so, the number of simulated universes would quickly outpace the number of real universes. Therefore could it not only be possible, but on a long enough time line, ever more probable that we exist inside a simulated universe?

/MindFuck Hobo

Perhaps, but simulation necessarily requires overhead. I suggested a sufficiently complex structure might recreate a human brain - as, indeed, we have already directly simulated neurons and neural structures - but that's quite a different order of complexity. So, it would take an entire universe to simulate an entire universe. Allowing the handwave that a whole universe might be put towards simulating another, and nothing else, if the infinite simulation still and only fits within an infinite simulator of the same order... so what?

It's just invoking a regression which exists in some larger manifold, and that's not, from within, different from the nested or bubbling universe-like forms strung together at the edges of other physical models, and there isn't really any meaningful vocabulary to describe such a situation beyond that from our point of view things look coherent and consistent anyway.

I suspect that to simulate X requires a mechanism with a complexity on the order of P(X), the power set of X.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: The Atheist's Afterlife: can resurrection happen without magic?
(11-10-2015 07:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  I suspect that to simulate X requires a mechanism with a complexity on the order of P(X), the power set of X.

That's what I would think at first blush but apparently it depends.

THE COMPUTATIONAL COMPLEXITY OF COMPONENT SELECTION IN SIMULATION REUSE

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