The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
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15-08-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
I have all TTT's IPs. 184.38. xxx was his school.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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15-08-2014, 11:48 AM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
Because I'm too lazy to see if anyone already posted this, here is the best write up of this sort I've ever read. All credit to DEXMAC, the author; and both Reddit and AtheistResource for hosting it.

http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/what...ly-happens



“But what if you’re wrong?” So goes the common questions posed to atheists by Christians. Putting aside for a moment the obvious retort (what if they are wrong and another religion is right?) I decided to really organize my thoughts a bit. What would I say if I was wrong, the Christians were right, and a moment after dying I found myself before the blinding majesty of Yahweh with Christ at his right hand?

Oh. Oh dear. I see. Well, I guess this is about as close to incontrovertible evidence for your existence as I could have ever demanded. Actually, as a good skeptic I pray you won’t get offended if I entertain the possibility that I’m experiencing a hypoxia-induced hallucination. But, I’ll just go along with this for now.

I’m not going to kneel or anything if you don’t mind. That would kind of be shutting the barn door after the cows have run out, don’t you think? Besides: by your will, I was thrust into life in a very undignified manner and state, so the least you could do would be to let me leave it in better circumstances. And really, that would be the very, very least you could do. You know, now that the initial shock of being dead is starting to wear off, I find myself getting angry. I’m trying to restrain it, but this whole situation is… absurd. According to most accounts, this is the part where you judge me. Who the hell are you to be a moral judge? You’re a sadistic, genocidal sex-obsessed tyrant. All my life, I laughed off those Christians who accused me of “hating God”. Like I told them, it wasn’t that I hated you; I just genuinely didn’t think you existed. But I did hate the idea of you. I didn’t see evidence to believe in any gods, but you in particular seemed like a logical contradiction. I was glad that the Bible was a work of-seeming-fiction because the belief that all of the most terrible things in the world were, at the worst, designed by or, at the best, permitted by an all-powerful conscious being was too horrible to not hate. It’s oddly refreshing to find that all this time I was outraged at something more tangible.

Or is this the part where your grand plan is revealed, your “mysterious ways” made clear? Will you say the magic words and suddenly I’ll understand how a child being raped, murdered, and left in a ditch fits in with you infinite benevolence? Will starvation and disease make sense? Because you know, I don’t think I want them to make sense. If that’s part of your omniscient knowledge, then I don’t want that part. I guess its fitting: humanity’s first act of defiance was to want knowledge to be more like you. Then let my last act of defiance be choosing ignorance so that I can be as unlike you as possible.

This is all perfectly futile. You know me better than anyone. You know my mind. You know how I thought. You know – and had the power over- all the circumstances in my life that meant you very existence seemed impossible to me. After all, you “knit me together in my mother’s womb,” didn’t you? So am I just a casualty of free will, then? You wanted worship from people who could choose to worship you and, to satisfy your ego, decided it was a fair price to create people whom you knew wouldn’t choose you and would face eternal torture for it. You know, even if almost everything had been perfect, a world free from pain and death where everyone would freely choose to spend an eternity with you – except for one person, and yet you made him anyways… then you would still be infinitely more evil than all the worst of humanity combined. You’re going to judge me? On behalf of all that’s good and decent in your creation, I judge you. I may have been a willful child, but you were a terrible father.

I can’t say I’m really inclined to beg for my soul now, given what I said about you knowing me perfectly. Even so, supposing mercy’s still an option (and that last rant didn’t kill my chances), I guess it’s worth a shot. I can’t pretend I have any love for you, but no principle is worth being damned over if it can be helped. What shall I say in my defense?

I tried to be good without you. You told your followers to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and visit the sick. I did those things, not because you told me to or because I thought I was “storing up treasure in heaven”. I did them for their own sake, for the sake of my neighbors. When I saw suffering, I tried to help instead of saying a quick prayer to you and believing I’d done something. And when I didn’t help and suffering continued, I held myself responsible instead of concluding it was just your divine will.

And I was content with one life- in fact, despite how terrible life could be, I was usually quite grateful to have one. I didn’t demand more. I was content to create my own meaning in the meaningless chaos, to find love in all the pain, to find the beautiful simplicity in the apparent complexity. And I have to say, you may have failed basic ethics but you sure had a deft hand when it came to creating the cosmos – not least because you did it in such a way as to make yourself seem irrelevant. The splendor of the night sky, the incredible diversity of life, everything. Quantum mechanics? That was crazy, I loved it! And relativity? You were on a roll that day, really. I saw nearly all of your creation for what it was: wonderful. I didn’t look at an exquisitely intricate world and call it fallen. I didn’t look at a newborn baby and call it sinful. I didn’t look at my seemingly finite life and call it inadequate.

So you created us because you desired companionship and love? Well then, you needed me. But I didn’t need you. I grew up and took responsibility for my own life. If that really is the greatest crime of all, then there’s nothing more I can say. The deck was stacked against me, but honestly, I can’t truly say I have any regrets. Heaven, hell, oblivion… your move, God.

Though I still think I’m probably hallucinating.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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15-08-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
That was weird.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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15-08-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
(15-08-2014 10:00 AM)Logisch Wrote:  This guy sounds a lot like a previous troll... what was his name... either the_thinking_theist or thearcticsage. Similar behaviors, attempts to rile people up with silly bullshit debates... then falls back to ad hominems when people stop taking him seriously and silly attempts at stirring shit up by giving up and just using attacks, etc. Mostly sounds like TTT.

Arcticsage ... who's last incarnation was Nappa... that's who it sounds like to me... cep more jesusy. Shy

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15-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
(15-08-2014 11:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Will you say the magic words and suddenly I’ll understand how a child being raped, murdered, and left in a ditch fits in with you infinite benevolence?

Understand how Satan works in your mind to misunderstand things. God created us perfectly. Man chose to sin. Sin begets sin through the flesh down through the generations. But God has a plan to redeem people. Those who don't want his saving grace such as you will burn in Hell for eternity.

Also, in a naturalistic only world these murders and rapes take place, but in that context they are acceptable? Why would you blame God for His creation in these taking place by sinners and yet not blame your naturalistic only world for the same events that take place?

And the very fact that you hold God to a higher standard than your naturalism only view tells me God trumps your naturalism.

Christians can see your unethical doublestandard.
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15-08-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
(15-08-2014 03:28 PM)hbl Wrote:  Also, in a naturalistic only world these murders and rapes take place, but in that context they are acceptable?

You think murders and rape are acceptable? I've never seen an atheist on this forum say murder and rape are acceptable, so you must be referring to your own opinion. It's common for theists to project onto others. I'm sorry you think rape and murder in a naturalistic world are acceptable. Releasing yourself from the concept of an authority figure... whoops, I meant objective, morality can be difficult, but it can be done.

Anyways, please explain why god has a chair and needs to sit in it. And why is it white?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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15-08-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
(15-08-2014 05:19 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  murder in a naturalistic world are acceptable.
Anyways, please explain why god has a chair and needs to sit in it. And why is it white?

You blame God for murders and rapes but why don't you blame your naturalistic only system for these murders and rapes? I see a doublestandard there. However, these rapes and murders are due to sin in God's eyes by individuals, and God sends those people to Hell, but there is no sin or consequence for sin your eyes which is evil.

What leader doesn't have a throne to sit on? Does not Barack have the White House and David his throne when he was king?

God had to pick some color for the throne. Why don't you ask Barack Obama why he resides in a white house instead of an orange house or a green house?
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15-08-2014, 07:11 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
(15-08-2014 06:29 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(15-08-2014 05:19 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  murder in a naturalistic world are acceptable.
Anyways, please explain why god has a chair and needs to sit in it. And why is it white?

You blame God for murders and rapes but why don't you blame your naturalistic only system for these murders and rapes? I see a doublestandard there. However, these rapes and murders are due to sin in God's eyes by individuals, and God sends those people to Hell, but there is no sin or consequence for sin your eyes which is evil.

What leader doesn't have a throne to sit on? Does not Barack have the White House and David his throne when he was king?

God had to pick some color for the throne. Why don't you ask Barack Obama why he resides in a white house instead of an orange house or a green house?

Is a naturalist system a being capable of decisions? If not, how can I assign blame to it?

Obama lives in a White House because it was painted white by its builders and he does not have the authority to change its color.

Now, why does god need a throne? He sits on this thing? It must be comfortable if he spends eternity on it. Does he also have an aircraft and security? Obama does.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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15-08-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
(15-08-2014 07:11 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Is a naturalist system a being capable of decisions? If not, how can I assign blame to it?

Obama lives in a White House because it was painted white by its builders and he does not have the authority to change its color.

Now, why does god need a throne? He sits on this thing? It must be comfortable if he spends eternity on it. Does he also have an aircraft and security? Obama does.

So you don't assign blame for raping and murdering in your naturalist only system?

I think the throne is white for the same reason. God painted it white after all He is the builder.

Nobody knows all the wonderful things God has planned for those who love Him. Lots of adventures ahead.
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15-08-2014, 07:30 PM
RE: The Atheist's Conversation at the Great White Throne
I do blame the naturalist system. I also blame gravity for keeping me from flying.

Do you think it stays white or does he have to repaint it every few thousand years? Your throne theory is hands down the most interesting thing a theist has posted in ages.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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