The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
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18-12-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:22 PM)The Drake Wrote:  WOW...I mean WOW Chas and Grasshopper. I think we all know that Dawkins and Hawking "entertain/believe" the "possibility/certainty" of life, intelligent or otherwise, on one of the myriad of planets we KNOW to exist. Why are you guys arguing about it ? Do we need Mom to send you to your rooms ?Gasp

Here's a clue.

It isn't the argument.

It's me.

Thumbsup

They just don't like me.

Oh well.

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18-12-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:16 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:12 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I am not distressed, just annoyed by your wilful obfuscation. "Evolved life" most assuredly does not implicitly include intelligent life, any more than "money in my pocket" implicitly means I am a millionaire. Evolved life has been present on this planet for billions of years. For most of that time, none of it would be considered intelligent in the sense that humans are intelligent. Evolution is an ongoing process, not a single well-defined state. Intelligent life must have evolved, but evolved life need not be intelligent. Have you figured that out yet?

Okay so by your understanding of "evolved life," we need exclude intelligent humans from the evolutionary process. I will let all scientists know on your behalf.

So ... here we go with a creator again?

Allah Akbar!

Tongue

He said nothing of the sort. You need to engage your brain while reading.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:23 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:22 PM)The Drake Wrote:  WOW...I mean WOW Chas and Grasshopper. I think we all know that Dawkins and Hawking "entertain/believe" the "possibility/certainty" of life, intelligent or otherwise, on one of the myriad of planets we KNOW to exist. Why are you guys arguing about it ? Do we need Mom to send you to your rooms ?Gasp

Here's a clue.

It isn't the argument.

It's me.

Thumbsup

They just don't like me.

Oh well.

No, you are simply careless with your language. It is annoying.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:16 PM)Free Wrote:  Okay so by your understanding of "evolved life," we need exclude intelligent humans from the evolutionary process. I will let all scientists know on your behalf.

So ... here we go with a creator again?

Allah Akbar!

Tongue

He said nothing of the sort. You need to engage your brain while reading.

Well let me ask you a question.

Does evolved life include humans on this planet?

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18-12-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:16 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:12 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I am not distressed, just annoyed by your wilful obfuscation. "Evolved life" most assuredly does not implicitly include intelligent life, any more than "money in my pocket" implicitly means I am a millionaire. Evolved life has been present on this planet for billions of years. For most of that time, none of it would be considered intelligent in the sense that humans are intelligent. Evolution is an ongoing process, not a single well-defined state. Intelligent life must have evolved, but evolved life need not be intelligent. Have you figured that out yet?

Okay so by your understanding of "evolved life," we need exclude intelligent humans from the evolutionary process. I will let all scientists know on your behalf.

So ... here we go with a creator again?

Allah Akbar!

Tongue

How the fuck did you get that from what I said? It is possible for life to evolve without intelligent humans being part of it, and this was actually the case on earth until the last million years or so. A billion years ago, was there evolved life on earth? Yes. Was there intelligent human life? No. I never said anything about excluding intelligent humans from the evolutionary process. If you think I did say that, you are fucking stupid. Or you are just wilfully misinterpreting everything I say, which makes you fucking dishonest. Either way, I'm done with you. If you can't have an honest discussion with someone without twisting everything they say into something they didn't say, you're not worth my time. Goodbye.
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18-12-2014, 05:29 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:27 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:16 PM)Free Wrote:  Okay so by your understanding of "evolved life," we need exclude intelligent humans from the evolutionary process. I will let all scientists know on your behalf.

So ... here we go with a creator again?

Allah Akbar!

Tongue

How the fuck did you get that from what I said? It is possible for life to evolve without intelligent humans being part of it, and this was actually the case on earth until the last million years or so. A billion years ago, was there evolved life on earth? Yes. Was there intelligent human life? No. I never said anything about excluding intelligent humans from the evolutionary process. If you think I did say that, you are fucking stupid. Or you are just wilfully misinterpreting everything I say, which makes you fucking dishonest. Either way, I'm done with you. If you can't have an honest discussion with someone without twisting everything they say into something they didn't say, you're not worth my time. Goodbye.

Just relax.

All this hate doesn't do you any good. It's already been established even by Chas that Dawkins believes in the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, so like ... why the fuck are you even arguing about this?

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18-12-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:01 PM)Free Wrote:  Have you figured out that "evolved life" implicitly includes intelligent life yet?

That depends on how you mean it. If you mean that "intelligent life" is "evolved life" then yes. If you mean that "evolved life" automatically implies "intelligent life" then no. "Evolved life" is just life arising through evolutionary processes. Bacteria are evolved life. Clams, sponges, lichens, etc are all evolved life. Intelligence is not implied by the word evolved.

Quote:Dawkins talks about intelligent life beginning at around the 28:00 mark to about the 40:00 mark.

if you mean this video, I watched from 28:00 to 40:00 and they discussed alien abiogenesis and evolution but not specifically intelligent life.

It is just after 13:50 that he says "I believe our galaxy is crawling with life" and goes on to say that it could still be rare. (Start at about 12:30 for the full context.) Does he say that again specifying "intelligent" anywhere afterwards?

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18-12-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:23 PM)Free Wrote:  Here's a clue.

It isn't the argument.

It's me.

Thumbsup

They just don't like me.

Oh well.

No, you are simply careless with your language. It is annoying.

No. You just don't like me any more. I am crushed. I am so crushed I am going out to by a brand new very expensive pillow just so I can cry on it.

'Scuse me while I kiss the sky ...

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18-12-2014, 05:37 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:31 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:01 PM)Free Wrote:  Have you figured out that "evolved life" implicitly includes intelligent life yet?

That depends on how you mean it. If you mean that "intelligent life" is "evolved life" then yes. If you mean that "evolved life" automatically implies "intelligent life" then no. "Evolved life" is just life arising through evolutionary processes. Bacteria are evolved life. Clams, sponges, lichens, etc are all evolved life. Intelligence is not implied by the word evolved.

Quote:Dawkins talks about intelligent life beginning at around the 28:00 mark to about the 40:00 mark.

if you mean this video, I watched from 28:00 to 40:00 and they discussed alien abiogenesis and evolution but not specifically intelligent life.

It is just after 13:50 that he says "I believe our galaxy is crawling with life" and goes on to say that it could still be rare. (Start at about 12:30 for the full context.) Does he say that again specifying "intelligent" anywhere afterwards?

My position on Richard Dawkins is based upon his quotes as a whole. I "know" that when he speaks of evolved life he is including intelligent life. How do I know? Well for fuck sakes ... you seen the video. You've read his other quotes. How much evidence is needed?

Since evolved life on earth includes intelligent humans, is it some great crime to think it can include intelligent alien life elsewhere?

I mean seriously guy ...

Blink

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18-12-2014, 05:40 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 05:26 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  He said nothing of the sort. You need to engage your brain while reading.

Well let me ask you a question.

Does evolved life include humans on this planet?

Of course - he never said it didn't.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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