The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
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19-12-2014, 06:20 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(16-12-2014 02:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 01:18 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Nothing specific enough to be taken seriously or that isn't explained as easily, if not better, as wishful thinking or writings based on knowledge of the "prophecy".


Many of the places and even events did happen. The people writing the bible incorporated what they knew into their stories to make them sound true. Charles Dickens used the geography and events of London of his time but that doesn't make Oliver Twist a historical figure. Spiderman isn't real because New York exists. Archaeology does not offer any support for the bible being anything other than a collection of myths.



See Bible archaeology. People wrote the bible based on what they knew. They got some things right and they got some things wrong. Nothing to see here.

Does your "nothing specific" include prophecies that the Christ would:
*be born specially of a woman, a virgin
*die for sin
*resurrect from the dead

Some have counted hundreds of specific prophecies of Jesus's advent but I think dying and resurrecting are specific and trumping.

You have a real thinking problem. There is no evidence that any of that happened outside of your Bible tales.

Oh, the virgin thing? Mistranslation.
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19-12-2014, 06:22 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(17-12-2014 03:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 03:56 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I shifted nothing. You have not presented anything that could reasonably be counted as prophecy. Do you have any examples of a prophecy that is specific and can actually be shown to have occurred as predicted?

Here's why I don't want to respond to your question. You have not backed down from your contention that "Nothing specific enough to be taken seriously or that isn't explained as easily, if not better, as wishful thinking or writings based on knowledge of the "prophecy"..."

The Messiah will rise from the dead is very specific enough to be taken seriously. Why would I defend this until you first admit it should be taken seriously? Until you admit is specific? What could be more specific?

That is specific and there is specifically no evidence of it happening to corroborate the tale told in the Bible.
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19-12-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(19-12-2014 02:40 AM)The Drake Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:51 PM)Free Wrote:  What the fuck are you even talking about?

Perhaps I'm misreading your intentions. But Dawkins saying that he believes there are probably intelligent aliens, doesn't mean that there are intelligent aliens.

Of course that is true.


Quote: It doesn't rule out the possibility or probability, but it is an opinion.

Agreed.

Quote: Though an informed opinion, the fact that it came from Dawkins doesn't make it valid. Only evidence can do that.

No one disagrees with this. However, the title of your thread suggested an atheist creation story, and Dawkins is a specialist in evolution and an atheist. His opinion, along with Hawking and Einstein, make more of a collective of intelligence than an argument from authority.

Individually sure, but when we find an agreement between a collective, that's a different ball game.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-12-2014, 08:42 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2014 08:48 AM by morondog.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(19-12-2014 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  No one disagrees with this. However, the title of your thread suggested an atheist creation story, and Dawkins is a specialist in evolution and an atheist. His opinion, along with Hawking and Einstein, make more of a collective of intelligence than an argument from authority.

Individually sure, but when we find an agreement between a collective, that's a different ball game.

Hawking & Einstein are not specialists in evolution Drinking Beverage

[edit] What I mean to say is... their areas of expertise do not overlap... it's not a scientific consensus here (as in a consensus of experts in the field) but a consensus of opinion... Using the three of them as a bolster of your own opinion IMO is an argument from authority. They are pretty good authorities though, as authorities go Consider

[edit edit] I think I'm jumping in on this in a half assed way, my apologies, I shall retire to reread the thread...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-12-2014, 08:55 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2014 09:01 AM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(19-12-2014 03:59 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:50 PM)Free Wrote:  Then if "we" are included, how the fuck can he not be talking about intelligent life?

Meh ... just go read The God Delusion.

Here's an excerpt:


Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion - Page 72.

And that's a wrap.

Time for some Nachos.

Errrm.... not a wrap.

That excerpt actually implies that WE are relatively unintelligent.

Here's a wrap:
[Image: wraps.png]

And toss me a Nacho.

No, not that one, you've nibbled that one. Yes. That one. Thanks.

Tongue

Okay, so maybe it's not a wrap, but since he says "there are very probably alien civilizations" I think it at least qualifies it to be a donair.

[Image: D%C3%B6ner_kebab.jpg]

My daughter gobbled down all our Nachos last night, so there's none for you, and not even any left for me. The little pigger.

Big Grin

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-12-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(19-12-2014 08:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  No one disagrees with this. However, the title of your thread suggested an atheist creation story, and Dawkins is a specialist in evolution and an atheist. His opinion, along with Hawking and Einstein, make more of a collective of intelligence than an argument from authority.

Individually sure, but when we find an agreement between a collective, that's a different ball game.

Hawking & Einstein are not specialists in evolution Drinking Beverage

[edit] What I mean to say is... their areas of expertise do not overlap... it's not a scientific consensus here (as in a consensus of experts in the field) but a consensus of opinion... Using the three of them as a bolster of your own opinion IMO is an argument from authority. They are pretty good authorities though, as authorities go Consider

[edit edit] I think I'm jumping in on this in a half assed way, my apologies, I shall retire to reread the thread...

You have a point. I only use them as fine examples of the best of human intellect, and since they all demonstrate certain degrees of belief in alien intelligence, I thought it would be good to throw the very best into the discussion.

Gasp

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-12-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(07-12-2014 04:58 PM)The Drake Wrote:  So I'm wondering, are there any Theists out there who could accept this if it were true ? What would they do if their GOD turned out to be an alien ?

He's not from Earth. He is an alien.


(07-12-2014 06:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I would ask him why it did such a piss-poor job of the design.

Turns out the world was created before the Old Testament, and the OT god is only as smart as his bronze-age followers. Interestingly enough, as time has marched on, God has mysteriously become smarter and more elusive to keep up with the times. He used to have to ask people where they were hiding and walk among the people in their camp (to the point where they were instructed to dispose of dung outside of it, because YHWH finds poop gross). Now, he exists outside of space and time, yet is everywhere at once. He can flawlessly see the future, except with some poorly defined limitations that make free will both possible and necessary.

Apparently this is an RPG and God has gone out and gained some levels. Maybe even a Prestige Class or two.
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19-12-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(19-12-2014 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 02:40 AM)The Drake Wrote:  Though an informed opinion, the fact that it came from Dawkins doesn't make it valid. Only evidence can do that.

No one disagrees with this. However, the title of your thread suggested an atheist creation story, and Dawkins is a specialist in evolution and an atheist. His opinion, along with Hawking and Einstein, make more of a collective of intelligence than an argument from authority.

Individually sure, but when we find an agreement between a collective, that's a different ball game.

All who have way more intelligence in one of their nose hairs than I will gain in my entire life. I grant that their opinions lend a degree of plausibility to an atheist creation story and in the spirit of this thread, one could imagine their musings were in response to my original post. Blink NAH ! But I can dream right. Smile

The second mouse gets the cheese.
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19-12-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(19-12-2014 12:36 PM)The Drake Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  No one disagrees with this. However, the title of your thread suggested an atheist creation story, and Dawkins is a specialist in evolution and an atheist. His opinion, along with Hawking and Einstein, make more of a collective of intelligence than an argument from authority.

Individually sure, but when we find an agreement between a collective, that's a different ball game.

All who have way more intelligence in one of their nose hairs than I will gain in my entire life. I grant that their opinions lend a degree of plausibility to an atheist creation story and in the spirit of this thread, one could imagine their musings were in response to my original post. Blink NAH ! But I can dream right. Smile

I would just like to remind people that the "atheist creation story" still boils down to abiogenesis followed by evolution. Even when Dawkins is speculating about aliens "seeding" life on earth, he makes it clear that the aliens themselves would have to have evolved. So using "aliens" as an atheist creation story is just begging the question, passing the buck, whatever. None of these scientists (nor any serious atheist) is proposing this as an ultimate solution. At some place and time, abiogenesis happened. The only alternatives are: (1) Life has always existed, and had no beginning, or (2) theism.

I suspect that theists would view evidence of aliens "seeding" life on Earth in exactly the same way -- the aliens themselves must have been created by God. Whether you're theist or atheist, the alien seeding hypothesis doesn't really change anything regarding ultimate origins.
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19-12-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
What the fuck is going on? Gasp Big Grin j/k

Dawkins may or may not have intended on explicitly stating that intelligent life is most likely to be found outside of our lush planet surroundings but who cares? He was wrong. We still cannot verify any intelligent life exists here on earth. Are we intelligent or are we hairless apes? Debatable. Just because we can harness the power of the sun does not make us intelligent especially when comparing that to star travelers and/or time travelers. We've had ONE Einstein. Imagine a species of MILLIONS of Einsteins. NDT hit the nail on the head with his speech about how he doubts any intelligent species would visit earth and I'd add unless they were hell bent on destruction. They would only need a small snipit of data to realize that we are very much still tree dwelling primates who have only recently begun to develop real intellect. Intelligent life elsewhere in the Cosmos? Of course. There's billions of galaxies with billions of suns in one of potential billions of universes.

And was it not Hawking that said sending a man made device into deep space with directions on how to find planet earth was a VERY bad idea? That statement alone signifies his belief that REAL intelligence might be out there lurking and dumb asses like us certainly don't need to find them or help them find us.
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