The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
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18-12-2014, 08:21 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 07:56 AM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 07:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  To be more precise (that is, less misleading) Hawking and Dawkins believe in the high probability of the existence of life, possibly intelligent, elsewhere in the universe.

I see no difference.

And that is the problem.

Your statement "Yes, and there's tons of stuff about Dawkins and his belief in intelligent extraterrestrial life" is too strong and implies too much.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2014, 08:27 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 08:46 AM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 08:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 07:56 AM)Free Wrote:  I see no difference.

And that is the problem.

Your statement "Yes, and there's tons of stuff about Dawkins and his belief in intelligent extraterrestrial life" is too strong and implies too much.

Hmmm ... you obviously haven't checked out much about what Dawkins thinks, have you?

I have already demonstrated it with Hawking ...

And now I will also demonstrate what Albert Einstein & Robert Oppenheimer thought. Here is a recently declassified government document:

Relationships With Inhabitants of Celestial Bodies

Very interesting. Smile

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 08:27 AM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  And that is the problem.

Your statement "Yes, and there's tons of stuff about Dawkins and his belief in intelligent extraterrestrial life" is too strong and implies too much.

Hmmm ... you obviously haven't checked out much about what Dawkins thinks, have you?

I have already demonstrated it with Hawking ...

You are missing the point. Saying that someone "believes in" something implies they accept it as fact. That is what makes your statement too strong.

Dawkins does not "believe in" intelligent extraterrestrial life, he entertains the possibility.

Recent Dawkins video.

And with NDG.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 08:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:27 AM)Free Wrote:  Hmmm ... you obviously haven't checked out much about what Dawkins thinks, have you?

I have already demonstrated it with Hawking ...

You are missing the point. Saying that someone "believes in" something implies they accept it as fact. That is what makes your statement too strong.

Dawkins does not "believe in" intelligent extraterrestrial life, he entertains the possibility.

Recent Dawkins video.

And with NDG.

Dude ... there is a massive difference between a statement of belief and a statement of fact.

A statement of belief always leaves room for falsifiability, but to make a positive claim of fact leaves no room at all.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 08:58 AM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are missing the point. Saying that someone "believes in" something implies they accept it as fact. That is what makes your statement too strong.

Dawkins does not "believe in" intelligent extraterrestrial life, he entertains the possibility.

Recent Dawkins video.

And with NDG.

Dude ... there is a massive difference between a statement of belief and a statement of fact.

A statement of belief always leaves room for falsifiability, but to make a positive claim of fact leaves no room at all.

You are still missing the point. The point is the connotation of the phrase "believes in" to most people, not its denotation just to you.

It is about clear, accurate communication.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2014, 09:10 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 09:14 AM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 09:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:58 AM)Free Wrote:  Dude ... there is a massive difference between a statement of belief and a statement of fact.

A statement of belief always leaves room for falsifiability, but to make a positive claim of fact leaves no room at all.

You are still missing the point. The point is the connotation of the phrase "believes in" to most people, not its denotation just to you.

It is about clear, accurate communication.

Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

So yes, he does believe that intelligent life exists out there, but he does not believe it to be indisputable. The contention here seems to be on the definition of "belief."

A belief is a mental representation of a sentient being's attitude toward the likelihood or truth of something. That's all it is.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 09:14 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 09:10 AM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 09:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are still missing the point. The point is the connotation of the phrase "believes in" to most people, not its denotation just to you.

It is about clear, accurate communication.

Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

So yes, he does believe that intelligent life exists out there, but he does not believe it to be indisputable.

[Image: point_missed.gif]

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2014, 09:17 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 10:14 AM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 09:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 09:10 AM)Free Wrote:  Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

So yes, he does believe that intelligent life exists out there, but he does not believe it to be indisputable.

[Image: point_missed.gif]

Explain this to me.

How can anyone "believe" something to be a fact? Do you believe 1 + 1 = 2, or is it a fact that 1 + 1 = 2?

A Fact is a fact. A belief is a belief.

It isn't me who is missing the point here.

Dawkins must have reasoning and a rationale to postulate the possibility that aliens seeded the earth. People just don't blurt this stuff out without having a legitimate reason to make these statements.

I mean if he was a hard-core non believer in extraterrestrial life, he wouldn't say anything at all, would he?

No, he said what he believes to be possible. He postulates a possibility, and there is most definitely an underlying reason and rationale to it. He demonstrates his attitude toward the likelihood, which differentiates from demonstrating an attitude toward it being the truth.

Belief is not restricted as an attitude towards the absolute truth. It also denotes various levels of what is likely. Whenever I speak of belief, understand I am not propagating absolute truth, but more-so an attitude towards a likelihood.

Richard Dawkins' hypothesis regarding extraterrestrial life implies an underlying belief in the possibility. According to his statements, we can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that he holds to the belief that extraterrestrial life exists, since his various statements on the subject implies it.

But admittedly, what is not known is to what degree of certainty he holds these beliefs.

Perhaps, in regards to understanding "belief," it's a cultural thing on how people view things from different perspectives.

Consider

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 09:10 AM)Free Wrote:  Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

Dawkins was pressed to offer any way that life on earth could be a product of intelligent design. He suggested alien intervention as 'possible' but I've not seen anything to support a claim that he thinks this is at all likely or that he'd have suggested it except under a "can you think of ANY possibility" challenge.

Suggesting that the odds of intelligent life existing elsewhere in the universe are very high is completely distinct from suggesting that they intentionally seeded life here or that they have visited here or even know we exist.

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18-12-2014, 11:45 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 12:54 PM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 11:23 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 09:10 AM)Free Wrote:  Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

Dawkins was pressed to offer any way that life on earth could be a product of intelligent design. He suggested alien intervention as 'possible' but I've not seen anything to support a claim that he thinks this is at all likely or that he'd have suggested it except under a "can you think of ANY possibility" challenge.

Suggesting that the odds of intelligent life existing elsewhere in the universe are very high is completely distinct from suggesting that they intentionally seeded life here or that they have visited here or even know we exist.

Please read the original where I said:

Quote:Even Richard Dawkins accepts the possibility of humans being of extraterrestrial design.

It is HERE.

Be it known that I do not share this view. My views are actually very different.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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