The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
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18-12-2014, 12:56 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  Please read the original where I said:

Quote:Even Richard Dawkins accepts the possibility of humans being of extraterrestrial design.

It is HERE.

Dude. Just a few posts earlier, you said

Quote:Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

Do you not see the difference between "admits the possibility" and "chances ... very high"?
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18-12-2014, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 01:01 PM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 12:56 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  Please read the original where I said:


It is HERE.

Dude. Just a few posts earlier, you said

Quote:Well, it's rather clear what Dawkins believes. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

Do you not see the difference between "admits the possibility" and "chances ... very high"?

Do you understand that they are two different things?

1. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms.
2. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

One view is merely possible, while the other view is very high. Two completely different and unrelated views.

They are exclusive.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 12:58 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 12:56 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Dude. Just a few posts earlier, you said


Do you not see the difference between "admits the possibility" and "chances ... very high"?

Do you understand that they are two different things?

1. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms.
2. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

One view is merely possible, while the other view is very high. Two completely different and unrelated views.

They are exclusive.

Can you please direct me to where he says the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere are very high? I'm not aware of him having said any such thing -- only of you claiming that he did. The only actual quote I've seen in this thread is the one where, when unexpectedly backed into a corner by Ben Stein, he admits the possibility. That doesn't inspire me with great confidence.
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18-12-2014, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 01:21 PM by Free.)
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 01:05 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 12:58 PM)Free Wrote:  Do you understand that they are two different things?

1. He finds it possible that earth was seeded by intelligent alien lifeforms.
2. He clearly states his views on the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere as being very high.

One view is merely possible, while the other view is very high. Two completely different and unrelated views.

They are exclusive.

Can you please direct me to where he says the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere are very high? I'm not aware of him having said any such thing -- only of you claiming that he did. The only actual quote I've seen in this thread is the one where, when unexpectedly backed into a corner by Ben Stein, he admits the possibility. That doesn't inspire me with great confidence.

Sure, and here's his quote and link:

Quote:During his own Starmus lecture, evolutionary biologist (and outspoken atheist) Richard Dawkins said the astronomical evidence suggests it's "most likely" that the universe has many forms of life — although those life forms may be on "islands separated by vast distances."

"The idea that we are alone in the universe seems to me completely implausible and arrogant," El Mundo quoted Dawkins as saying. "Considering the number of planets and stars that we know exist, it's extremely unlikely that we are the only form of evolved life."

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/im-...el-n210076

When such statements regarding alien life comes from some of these great minds- such as Einstein, Dawkins, and Hawking- are analyzed, I tend to sit up and take notice.

Consider

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 01:13 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 01:05 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Can you please direct me to where he says the chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere are very high? I'm not aware of him having said any such thing -- only of you claiming that he did. The only actual quote I've seen in this thread is the one where, when unexpectedly backed into a corner by Ben Stein, he admits the possibility. That doesn't inspire me with great confidence.

Sure, and here's his quote and link:

Quote:During his own Starmus lecture, evolutionary biologist (and outspoken atheist) Richard Dawkins said the astronomical evidence suggests it's "most likely" that the universe has many forms of life — although those life forms may be on "islands separated by vast distances."

"The idea that we are alone in the universe seems to me completely implausible and arrogant," El Mundo quoted Dawkins as saying. "Considering the number of planets and stars that we know exist, it's extremely unlikely that we are the only form of evolved life."

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/im-...el-n210076

When the statements regarding alien life from some of these great minds, such as Einstein, Dawkins, and Hawking are analyzed, I tend to sit up and take notice.

Consider

I see him saying that it's extremely likely that there is life elsewhere. I agree with that. Nowhere does he say anything about intelligent life. That's an important distinction, don't you think? You keep trying to spin it as him saying intelligent life is extremely likely. He didn't say that (or if he did, you have yet to provide evidence of it).
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18-12-2014, 01:29 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 01:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 01:13 PM)Free Wrote:  Sure, and here's his quote and link:


http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/im-...el-n210076

When the statements regarding alien life from some of these great minds, such as Einstein, Dawkins, and Hawking are analyzed, I tend to sit up and take notice.

Consider

I see him saying that it's extremely likely that there is life elsewhere. I agree with that. Nowhere does he say anything about intelligent life. That's an important distinction, don't you think? You keep trying to spin it as him saying intelligent life is extremely likely. He didn't say that (or if he did, you have yet to provide evidence of it).

Okay, so you have this semantic thing where the word "intelligent" is not present, while you ignore the words "evolved life?"

Okay.

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How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
Not a "semantic thing". An amoeba is evolved life. Intelligent life is something quite different. If I tell you I have some money in my pocket, it would be dishonest of you to start telling people that I'm a millionaire.

You have a strong belief that we have been visited by UFOs -- I get that. But you are being dishonest by attempting to back up your claims with other people's statements that are nowhere near as strong as what you are claiming. You are expanding Dawkins' statements way beyond what he actually said.
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18-12-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Not a "semantic thing". An amoeba is evolved life. Intelligent life is something quite different. If I tell you I have some money in my pocket, it would be dishonest of you to start telling people that I'm a millionaire.

You have a strong belief that we have been visited by UFOs -- I get that. But you are being dishonest by attempting to back up your claims with other people's statements that are nowhere near as strong as what you are claiming. You are expanding Dawkins' statements way beyond what he actually said.

Can you define what intelligence is?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-12-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 02:22 PM)Free Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Not a "semantic thing". An amoeba is evolved life. Intelligent life is something quite different. If I tell you I have some money in my pocket, it would be dishonest of you to start telling people that I'm a millionaire.

You have a strong belief that we have been visited by UFOs -- I get that. But you are being dishonest by attempting to back up your claims with other people's statements that are nowhere near as strong as what you are claiming. You are expanding Dawkins' statements way beyond what he actually said.

Can you define what intelligence is?

It's a word that admits of a wide range of definitions. I'm pretty sure that when you use the phrase "intelligent life" in these discussions, you would like it to mean life that is capable of building spaceships and piloting those ships across vast expanses of space to visit other intelligent life in other star systems. Nowhere has Dawkins said that this type of intelligent life is "extremely likely" -- only that it's possible. You keep trying to morph one statement into the other, and I'm not buying it. 1% and 99% are both possibilities, and they are both probabilities (see how slippery those words can be?), but they are definitely not the same thing.
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18-12-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: The Athiest "SPECIAL" creation story.
(18-12-2014 02:34 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 02:22 PM)Free Wrote:  Can you define what intelligence is?

It's a word that admits of a wide range of definitions. I'm pretty sure that when you use the phrase "intelligent life" in these discussions, you would like it to mean life that is capable of building spaceships and piloting those ships across vast expanses of space to visit other intelligent life in other star systems. Nowhere has Dawkins said that this type of intelligent life is "extremely likely" -- only that it's possible. You keep trying to morph one statement into the other, and I'm not buying it. 1% and 99% are both possibilities, and they are both probabilities (see how slippery those words can be?), but they are definitely not the same thing.

And would you understand that applying the human concept of what intelligence is to an extraterrestrial life form is absolutely no different than applying the same concept to say ... a hippopotamus, duck, or some bees?

As humans, do you really think that we have the market cornered on what intelligence actually is?

And finally, are you suggesting somehow that "evolved life" does not include intelligent life? Rationalize that position please.

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How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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