The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
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23-07-2012, 12:09 AM
 
Sad The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
I'm really bothered by the Aurora theater shooting. I work with the mentally ill, and I know what paranoia can do to a person's perceptions. But there's no paranoia in this. There's something else at work. Paranoia is when you stab your neighbor because he has a demon. Planning for months, dressing in body armor, going into a building and shooting at strangers is not paranoia.

And what about God? Shall we blame God? I don't. God is God; everything is God--the shooter and the shot are all God, and God can do whatever He wants to--It's His universe.

Maybe what bothers me so much is that if you can grow up with all the advantages and still end up a mass murderer, what's the point in anything? Beat your kid, don't beat your kid, smoke while you're pregnant, don't smoke, give your baby alcohol in his bottle to make him sleep. Whatever. What difference does it make?

Even killing this guy by execution doesn't level the playing field does it? His one life doesn't pay for all the lives he took.

I would like to ask my atheist brethren a question: If there is nothing higher and no real reason for us to exist. Isn't the "badness" of what this guy did kind of an illusion? If the mind comes from the brain, then how can he be responsible for what he's done?

I'm not trying to start a fight. I really am confused.

When I was a kid, the future was supposed to be a good place to head toward. Everything was going to be better. I don't see a bright future. The next ten years look very dark to me. What if all these mass murders are happening because there just isn't shit else to do?

We're in the future, and all it means is no jobs, no prosperity, no middle class, no difference between political candidates, no reason for any new technology. No reason to go to college. No reason to do anything but eat, work and watch TV.

I think that's why everyone gets tatoos and piercings, gets stoned on designer drugs, and shoots people with automatic weapons. Because there just isn't fuck all else to do.

In 2007-08, when the economy dropped, I had always been quite an amature student of economics, and I knew there was no way out. There was no way to recover, because there was no new industry to make a recovery on. Now, when I look at things sociologically, I'm starting to feel the same doom. We have nothing to look forward to. And more than that--it is impossible for there to be anything to look forward to.

I'm rambling, and I have no idea why. This shooting has disturbed me. I know Denver very well. I lived in Colorado a very long time.

What's going to make the world a better place? Huh
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23-07-2012, 12:46 AM
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
Hmmm, seems like we need to slow down and take a deep breath.

This kind of thing doesn't only shake a nation, it shakes the world. It's understandable to feel overwhelmed because that is what tragedies do, but be careful in your own mental state- take breaks from this for air and sunshine with your loved ones, because you still have that.

Lets take a closer look at the question why in a situation like this.

Ironically, this recent murderer was taking neurology, one to the keys to understanding his very actions.

I have read many articles on this in the past few days, but I have found a favourite that can help show a picture of the pivotal point for this, where one decides to do this horrible act. PLEASE read . It's a short read and worth your time.

The answer in this is compassion. And like the article states, it may be years until we get the whole truth of what led up to this, but I am betting it has something to do with dropping out of school, which is what was happening for this individual. Any major life change, or setback, can trigger this sense of needing to be known, recognized or heard for the reason that a self-identity may be confused when it loses track (changing careers, losing interest in a hobby one had invested a lot of time and energy into, etc,) which can cause confusion. Doing something this horrendous is a sure fire way to fast track this. It is a way of becoming an instant 'celebrity' and becoming well known and identified as someone for something.

If any of us ever see someone distraught after an event similar in nature in another's life, I think it's important to reach out to that person compassionately and help them find their way so they don't feel the need to demand it.

We need to understand our minds better to prevent cases like this from happening more. Re: EDUCATION AND SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY. Yup, I said it Tongue

I have a tattoo Egor. To me it means that blissful moment I experienced when I was surfing one time, that connection with everything around me so together as well as separate. A little Zen have you, but there is truth there. It wasn't because I wanted to go on a mass murder spree though, far from it Smile
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23-07-2012, 01:07 AM
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
(23-07-2012 12:46 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  Hmmm, seems like we need to slow down and take a deep breath.

This kind of thing doesn't only shake a nation, it shakes the world. It's understandable to feel overwhelmed because that is what tragedies do, but be careful in your own mental state- take breaks from this for air and sunshine with your loved ones, because you still have that.

Lets take a closer look at the question why in a situation like this.

Ironically, this recent murderer was taking neurology, one to the keys to understanding his very actions.

I have read many articles on this in the past few days, but I have found a favourite that can help show a picture of the pivotal point for this, where one decides to do this horrible act. PLEASE read . It's a short read and worth your time.

The answer in this is compassion. And like the article states, it may be years until we get the whole truth of what led up to this, but I am betting it has something to do with dropping out of school, which is what was happening for this individual. Any major life change, or setback, can trigger this sense of needing to be known, recognized or heard for the reason that a self-identity may be confused when it loses track (changing careers, losing interest in a hobby one had invested a lot of time and energy into, etc,) which can cause confusion. Doing something this horrendous is a sure fire way to fast track this. It is a way of becoming an instant 'celebrity' and becoming well known and identified as someone for something.

If any of us ever see someone distraught after an event similar in nature in another's life, I think it's important to reach out to that person compassionately and help them find their way so they don't feel the need to demand it.

We need to understand our minds better to prevent cases like this from happening more. Re: EDUCATION AND SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY. Yup, I said it Tongue

I have a tattoo Egor. To me it means that blissful moment I experienced when I was surfing one time, that connection with everything around me so together as well as separate. A little Zen have you, but there is truth there. It wasn't because I wanted to go on a mass murder spree though, far from it Smile
Good post, LJ. And I definitely agree; more science in understanding the brain is required, well, it's a start anyway.

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23-07-2012, 01:14 AM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2012 01:18 AM by Filox.)
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
Hmmmm... You see, when it comes to human being, we are all quite individual. Although we all live (more or less) in societies, where we are influenced by our parents, friends and strangers, we do retain our individuality. That individuality gives us a unique perspective on this world and I think that perspectives are like fingerprints, you will never find two identical perspectives. Now, perspective governs how we see the world around us and how we interact with it.

From your perspective, this shooter has made a terrible thing, we should all judge him and he should pay, but from his perspective, maybe he did a good thing to the world? Someone like me might read it and look at it as just one more news from the other side of the world? Someone like you feels like the hope for humanity is slipping away?

If you think about it, there is absolutely nothing we can do to change this fact. We are all born and raised, we all have some genetics and some education to guide our minds. The society in which we live in can try to adjust our thinking by educating us and by telling us what we can and can not do. Punish us if we step over the line. Unfortunately, that does not work for everyone, it can help with the statistical data, but you will always find individuals who see this world through a different set of eyes and they will not follow the rules that the majority has set up. Why? Who knows. Is it the hand of God, or is it their own free will? Is it some neurological disorder or is that natural behaviour, and we are the ones that are doing it wrong?

Best thing you can do is look at your own life and try to live the best you know and can. What is the "best way to live"? Now, that is all up to you, the best way to live is what you think is the best way for you to live. Take care of yourself, take care of your family, try to help people around you, if you can, or if you will. Do what makes you happy and try not to hurt others around you. Simple and effective.

Don't cry for the future of mankind, the future is not yet written, or at least we don't know it. It will be as it is meant to be and there will always be some people/events that go against everything you know, but remember, sometimes you are the one that is going against everything someone else thinks it's normal. It's just the way things are, you have to find your place in all this madness...

Hope you do.

Peace.

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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
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23-07-2012, 01:24 AM
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
I remember watching a BBC program when I was a youngster called "tommorows world". It was a program that tried to look into the future and guess technology and how it well evolve and it allways painted a picture of this kinda perfect Utopian world, where technology will help mankind transcend to new levels.

In some respects technology has advanced us to levels that are good, Im sure many people can think of different inventions that have helped the world and also scientific breakthroughs..... on the flip side though technology has also produced weapons of mass destruction.

This global recession.... I reckon im gonna have some people disagree with me but its fucked, its over. Everything that the worlds goverments are doing is just papering over the cracks, there is no way out whatsoever. No amount of printing or putting digital numbers in bank accounts is going to pay off the debt.

I think history is going to repeat itself (again) and we have the recession/depression and soon we are going to have the war to help bring us out of it...... if that dont happen then we can look forward to the sun in its solar maximum bombarding us with shit over the next few years (im a happy optimistic chappie today ha ha)

What will make the world a better place???

Ive no idea........ what I think might work somebody may disagree with and there is the core of the problem.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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23-07-2012, 12:59 PM
 
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
(23-07-2012 01:24 AM)bemore Wrote:  This global recession.... I reckon im gonna have some people disagree with me but its fucked, its over. Everything that the worlds goverments are doing is just papering over the cracks, there is no way out whatsoever. No amount of printing or putting digital numbers in bank accounts is going to pay off the debt.

I agree 100%. In fact, all they're doing is setting us up for the next recession/depression.
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23-07-2012, 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2012 06:10 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
(23-07-2012 12:59 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(23-07-2012 01:24 AM)bemore Wrote:  This global recession.... I reckon im gonna have some people disagree with me but its fucked, its over. Everything that the worlds goverments are doing is just papering over the cracks, there is no way out whatsoever. No amount of printing or putting digital numbers in bank accounts is going to pay off the debt.
Egor...To say god is everything seems like an equivocation to me..........a wanting to keep hope and faith by making god unrecognizable doesn't seem to do a great deal to alleviate existing problems.
(23-07-2012 12:59 PM)Egor Wrote:  Bemore.As for the economy, we need primarily for more people to realise that ad hoc patching up by mindless mercenaries simply exacerbates the problems. From an wholistic perspective for some to live longer enjoying weirder sensations the price for all is more stress and fear as wild sensationalism de humanizes us.
(23-07-2012 12:59 PM)Egor Wrote:  If we are simply evolved creatures obsessed with enjoying as much as we can in lives of any? duration, the issues of making things better for the first world let alone the third, seem remote by virtue of the selfishness as expressed by Ayn Rand in her capitalistic writings. It is difficult to deny that even seemingly kind and altruistic deeds do not essentially reflect on our own security whether temporal or of religious persuasion.

Sorry gents, I messed up the formatting here. Sad
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23-07-2012, 09:16 PM
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
(23-07-2012 06:05 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Egor...To say god is everything seems like an equivocation to me..........a wanting to keep hope and faith by making god unrecognizable doesn't seem to do a great deal to alleviate existing problems.

Bemore.As for the economy, we need primarily for more people to realise that ad hoc patching up by mindless mercenaries simply exacerbates the problems. From an wholistic perspective for some to live longer enjoying weirder sensations the price for all is more stress and fear as wild sensationalism de humanizes us.

If we are simply evolved creatures obsessed with enjoying as much as we can in lives of any? duration, the issues of making things better for the first world let alone the third, seem remote by virtue of the selfishness as expressed by Ayn Rand in her capitalistic writings. It is difficult to deny that even seemingly kind and altruistic deeds do not essentially reflect on our own security whether temporal or of religious persuasion.

Sorry gents, I messed up the formatting here. Sad
Fixed... And I switched the forum back to the old editor for now.. The other one has too many glitches.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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24-07-2012, 12:01 PM
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
(23-07-2012 12:09 AM)Egor Wrote:  If there is nothing higher and no real reason for us to exist. Isn't the "badness" of what this guy did kind of an illusion?

Why would what this person did be an illusion? This person willingly made other people not exist; he is responsible for what he's done, regardless of his mental state. If this person did in fact separate from reality, then he needs help getting back to reality. He will face the consequences of his actions regardless, I'm sure.

Criminal activity of any sort could be likely if one loses contact with reality so completely as to decide an action to be, in your words Egor, "kind of an illusion". That would be a psychotic episode resulting in criminal activity and would probably be judged accordingly. That's why there exists the ruling, guilty but insane.

(23-07-2012 12:09 AM)Egor Wrote:  If the mind comes from the brain, then how can he be responsible for what he's done?

The term "insanity" in the face of justice can be a relative term and therefore quite tricky, to be sure.
Psychopathy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Psychosis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotic

These two things are not the same thing and rarely happen within the same person. Psychopaths are rarely psychotic; it is extremely rare for a psychopath to lose control. It is just as rare for a psychotic to be so completely in control in order to organize and carry out an elaborately planned event. Psychopaths are frequently calculating opportunists, while psychotics often dismantle and reassemble reason and logic to support their delusional perspective.

A psychotic might sometimes display confused or inappropriate emotion and/or behavior all relative to circumstance. In contrast, while being unable to experience emotion, psychopaths have a great ability to mimic emotion - with a psychopath; any behavior could be an act relative to circumstance.

A perfectly rational person can become mentally ill, develop a psychosis, and be treated for it. A psychopath is a psychopath. An untreated psychotic might be evaluated "insane" at any given time, while a psychopath could be a highly functioning individual; both could easily commit the exact same offense.

********

I do not share your negative outlook.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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24-07-2012, 01:03 PM
RE: The Aurora Shooting: What's going to make the world a better place?
MY feeling is that in the end... no. There is no wrong or right. Atoms that were arranged in interesting patterns which had emergent behaviour have been disrupted by the action of other atoms. At some sort of ultimate level there is no right or wrong IMO. It sounds terrible... and inhuman. And it is... the universe isn't exactly a human-purposed place.

The thing is we humans don't operate at that level. Sure, ultimately consciousness, free will etc may *all* be an illusion. I kinda think they are but I'm just an idiot so I wouldn't know... but at a human level, consciousness *is* there. Thoughts and feelings do matter...
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