The Benefits of the Fair Tax
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10-02-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
My point was that it isn't the federal governments place to provide services, aside from the few outlined in the Constitution, like defending the country. We got along fine under this system for a long time until 1913, until the system we know now was set in motion. I am not saying we can't debate whether or not it is needed, I am simply saying I don't buy the assumption it is.
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10-02-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
(10-02-2014 02:59 PM)mrlmichael Wrote:  My point was that it isn't the federal governments place to provide services, aside from the few outlined in the Constitution, like defending the country. We got along fine under this system for a long time until 1913, until the system we know now was set in motion. I am not saying we can't debate whether or not it is needed, I am simply saying I don't buy the assumption it is.
I am not working under the assumption that the feds have to provide services, but the fact that they do. I think many many things could be done more efficently at the local level with less federal involvement, but that is not how we are set up.
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10-02-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
Ok, your point is more clear now. I personally would have no problem rolling back most federal services and leaving it up to the states to decide what services they want to offer.
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10-02-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
(10-02-2014 01:07 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Given Switzerlands size and population you have a hard time conviencening me that type of system work work here. From what I understand of the Swiss tax system it sounds alot like what goes on at the state level here.

All Switzerland did was copy the US system. Back when the US followed the system, the US had the greatest economic growth it's ever seen.

Having a system of small, local, autonomous regions is infinitely scalable. Heck, there could be civilizations on millions of other planets, and, as long they are locally managed, we won't get bogged down. Having a system of centralized control, THAT is difficult, if not impossible, to scale, and nobody's successfully done it. Again, imagine there were millions of civilizations in the universe and you tried to have ONE single central body make all the decisions for everyone. It wouldn't be possible.

Already, the US is much too big to centrally manage. Back when the US had local, autonomous control the cost for government services was a fraction of what it is today.
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10-02-2014, 08:05 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
(10-02-2014 03:29 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Already, the US is much too big to centrally manage. Back when the US had local, autonomous control the cost for government services was a fraction of what it is today.

The Peoples Republic of Maryland says "Fuck you Frank. We take care of our own bitch."

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10-02-2014, 08:09 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
Quote:Thoughts?

Thank you for championing one of the most regressive form of taxation. Rich bastards will put up a statue to you.

Watch your back, though. There are a lot more poor people who will get fucked flat by your proposal.

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11-02-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
Point for discussion: admitting of the necessity for some role of government, it is fairly simple to contruct the argument that the size of government is proportional to the complexity of society. The level of regulation that existed in the 19th century is meaningless outside a 19th century society.

Or - you don't need the FCC until you invent radio.

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11-02-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
(10-02-2014 08:09 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Thank you for championing one of the most regressive form of taxation. Rich bastards will put up a statue to you.

Watch your back, though. There are a lot more poor people who will get fucked flat by your proposal.

I've written many times about how, since 1971, we've had a horribly regressive tax system that robs the poor and middle class, creating huge inequality, and showed you the models that predicted this would happen and the historic data proving it did happen as the models predicted, and showing it had nothing to do with income tax rates. There's been lots of threads and youtube videos showing how, with this system, all the wealth is getting concentrated at the top. So I would argue we already HAVE the most regressive form of taxation, one which "rich bastards" will do anything to defend. Politicians love it because it's a hidden form of taxation, allowing them to impose enormous taxes on the poor and middle class without them even knowing it.

Q: Do you dispute this, that the current system is very regressive and that it's caused largely by the monetary policy adopted in 1971?

Q: Are you defending the current system, and if not, what do you think should be changed? And before you say 'higher taxes on the rich', remember in throughout 1970's the top rate was 70%, and not only was the economy terrible, but inequality was STILL getting worse.

Q: I don't like a national sales tax and agree it's regressive. However, if we went back to a sound monetary policy that stopped the massive taxation on the poor and middle class, and at the same time switched to a national sales tax, do you have any data or models to prove that it would be MORE regressive than the system we have now? IMO, the current system is the most regressive of all.
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11-02-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
Study the taxation rates on corporations prior to fucking Reagan. Examine corporate behavior back when they actually had to pay taxes. It bears little resemblance to the way the bastards act today.

You know, when some sleazy bastards like Forbes magazine pushes for a flat tax it is not because it is a benefit to the poor and middle class. The only thing they can use Forbes for is to line their cardboard box homes.

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11-02-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: The Benefits of the Fair Tax
(11-02-2014 11:38 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Study the taxation rates on corporations prior to fucking Reagan. Examine corporate behavior back when they actually had to pay taxes. It bears little resemblance to the way the bastards act today.

You know, when some sleazy bastards like Forbes magazine pushes for a flat tax it is not because it is a benefit to the poor and middle class. The only thing they can use Forbes for is to line their cardboard box homes.

You ignored all my questions. I will restate: the US's historic gini coefficient proves the Austrian models were correct--the current trend toward inequality began in 1971. It CONTINUED through the Reagan years, but it didn't start there. It started 10 years earlier, before any of his changes to the tax code. Unless you're proposing that Reagan had a time machine and his 1980 election resulted in changes from 1971, then this is a red herring. If you cared about the plight of poor and middle class, doesn't it make sense to embrace the empirical data, rather than ignore it and just blame everything on your ideological opposite? I probably dislike Reagan as much as you, but I want to get to the heart of the issue, which is why I dig deeper and look at the facts, and don't just use Reagan as a scapegoat.
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