The Bible - all or nothing?
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08-12-2013, 12:34 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
Jesus spoke of the OT law and prophets, saying that not one jot or tittle would pass away, as he came to fulfill all of it. So no, Jesus doesn't allow you to cherry pick the nonsense (at least 90 percent) out and keep the parts you find inspiring.
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08-12-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 12:30 PM)Teen-skeptic-go! Wrote:  Then there is no way to tell which ones are reliable without simply using one's "gut-feelings."

Can you specify what you mean by "gut-feelings"?

Quote:Why would an omniscient being, knowing the weaknesses of his creations mix truth and allegory together without giving any method of differentiating between the two?

Are you insinuating that God wrote the Bible himself? I never said that, or thought that. It has a multitude of authors.

Quote:With all these interpretations, the plausibility of a hypothetical god's omniscience is brought severely into question

If you think God wrote it, yes.
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08-12-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 12:16 PM)Fat Mac Wrote:  ...
religion and political legislation should never intertwine.

Well that's a step in the right direction.

Pity it's taken so much bloodshed to get to this point.

Now, if you wouldn't mind just informing the pope and the mullahs and most US Senators then we can dismantle this forum and be on our way.

Thanks

Drinking Beverage

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08-12-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 12:34 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  Jesus spoke of the OT law and prophets, saying that not one jot or tittle would pass away, as he came to fulfill all of it. So no, Jesus doesn't allow you to cherry pick the nonsense (at least 90 percent) out and keep the parts you find inspiring.

It's true that he references the OT frequently. But this still doesn't mean that the events literally had to happen. Jesus was a teacher, and he taught, sometimes, by bringing up events in the OT. This doesn't mean they literally had to occur, but because Jesus agreed that the OT was divinely inspired, he agreed that the people he was among should refer to the OT.

As bad as some things are in the OT, there are still positive qualities about it.
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08-12-2013, 12:45 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 12:50 PM by kim.)
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 12:16 PM)Fat Mac Wrote:  Yes, these people exist. But the best part is, that they can exist, because it's a book that allows for multiple interpretations. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I'm glad that they can form their own opinion on the book.

I'm ok with anyone having an opinion on any book they want. I have no problem with people who even want to practice whatever they interpret from this book as long as it doesn't hurt someone... including their own children.

(08-12-2013 12:16 PM)Fat Mac Wrote:  I am aware of this issue, and regardless of your interpretation of the Bible, religion and political legislation should never intertwine.

I completely agree! Thumbsup
I support everyone's right to never intertwine religion and political legislation.

The constitutions of these seven US states ban atheists from holding public office:
Arkansas:
"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."
Maryland:
"That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.”
Mississippi:
"No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."
North Carolina:
"The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."
South Carolina:
"No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."
Tennessee:
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."
Texas:
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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08-12-2013, 12:50 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 11:28 AM)Fat Mac Wrote:  the Bible is just a book. Yeah, I get it, it's the "holy book," but in actuality, it's just a book. A piece of literature meant to be read and analyzed, like any other book.

My point is: why does the Bible have to be taken literally? Why can't I think some things were meant to be literal and some things were just stories?

Because most American fundies are totally ignorant of literature in general, the various forms of literature, and only "literally true" can be "real" to infantile minds.

The Bible was NEVER "meant to be read and analyzed". Mostly it was meant to be sung in liturgies. When it was written it was not available to almost anyone. No one sat around reading gospels. The scrolls were rolled up, and locked up. No one had all of them, in one place. The population was about 5 % literate. The gospels were meant to be "proclaimed" (in liturgical services), and the letters to the congregations were meant to be read to them. Of course there was no "ta biblia" ("the books") assembled until much much later, (and non-unanimously voted into the canon, and the argument about what constituted the canon has gone on for centuries, and continues to this day.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-12-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
Now I'm just an average hobbit atheist, but let me sum up what I feel from reading this thread

If that book is supposed to be "The Divine Word" inspired by papa god upstairs....then the book should be clear (aka no contradictions) and straightforward right?

You shouldn't have to 'figure out' what it means (This part here is a parable, this part isn't etc)

And if you're a religious person who goes for "It is the word of god but it was written by men" ....then why the heck would you TRUST anything written down? Wouldn't any normal person stop and see RED FLAGS all over that disgusting book?


Anyway, my long winded way of saying every time I see this discussion (and I do....frequently) it just is exhausting.
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08-12-2013, 01:23 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 12:45 PM)Fat Mac Wrote:  ...
As bad as some things are in the OT, there are still positive qualities about it.

So which of the 613 Commandments do you agree with?

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08-12-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 12:34 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  Jesus spoke of the OT law and prophets, saying that not one jot or tittle would pass away, as he came to fulfill all of it. So no, Jesus doesn't allow you to cherry pick the nonsense (at least 90 percent) out and keep the parts you find inspiring.
It all depends on what he meant by fulfilling it. Combine that with this,

Colossians 2:14-15

King James Version (KJV)


14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
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08-12-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 01:21 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Now I'm just an average hobbit atheist, but let me sum up what I feel from reading this thread

If that book is supposed to be "The Divine Word" inspired by papa god upstairs....then the book should be clear (aka no contradictions) and straightforward right?
I know it seems that way, but actually it is not. The bible is not meant to be able to be understood by anybody, but only by guidance of the Holy Spirit. There's a perfectly good reason for this. It is the only way to destroy the vanity that is the cause of corruption. It isn't meant to be personal.

Quote:You shouldn't have to 'figure out' what it means (This part here is a parable, this part isn't etc)
2.Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand
72.John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
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