The Bible - all or nothing?
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08-12-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
Fat Mac - Sorry, child eye had me pulling my hair out for a second.

I think what you are saying here is that you have just as much interpretive authority as King James did in his version. I agree with you.

I know lots of religious people who don't believe in Noah, the virgin birth, and consider jesus to be just a guy. Imperfect. Human. Kinda like Nelson Mendella, Dr. King, and a ton of other influential people of their time. They also recognize that the game of telephone distorts things, so they don't even believe everything he supposedly said to: a) be verbatim; 2) undistorted; 3) or even accurate.

So in the end, all they are really left with is the message to love your neighbor. Thats it. No more. They believe in heaven and hell, but non belief and/or an incorrect belief will not land you in hell. I asked this person how they reconciled that, and she simply said (I'm paraphrasing), "look, if god puts me in hell because I didn't believe correctly, or I got the wrong idea, thats really his problem. I was doing the best I could with what he gave me had to work with, which, frankly, he could have done a lot better job if heaven and hell were really riding on it."

So kudos to you for recognizing that it might be flawed. And if its flawed, take the parts you think are working and discard the parts that aren't. So long as you aren't hurting anyone (like imposing your morals and beliefs on others) than rock out man.

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08-12-2013, 03:38 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 03:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 11:49 AM)childeye Wrote:  But I do know that there is deep wisdom and meaning in the scriptures. Frankly speaking, mind blowing. I also know that no one can uncover it's secrets without a pure heart.

Why you gotta take a simple message like "Don't be a dick." and make it all mystical and shit?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-12-2013, 03:45 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 03:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 11:28 AM)Fat Mac Wrote:  A piece of literature meant to be read and analyzed, like any other book.
Not really. Those who are writings Scriptures are doing it having influence of the Holy Ghost. In order to understand correctly Scriptures someone has to have influence of the Holy Ghost.
This is the only way.
(08-12-2013 11:28 AM)Fat Mac Wrote:  Well, the exact same thing is happening with the Bible. I don't think the majority, if any, of the Old Testament actually happened. I think it's all just a story.
Is this what Spirit told/taught you?


(08-12-2013 11:28 AM)Fat Mac Wrote:  But I firmly believe in what Jesus taught and I think that's what Christianity's real purpose is; to spread what he said. Call me a Red-Letter Christian if you will.
And what did He said that in your opinion that is so important?

(08-12-2013 11:28 AM)Fat Mac Wrote:  My point is: why does the Bible have to be taken literally? Why can't I think some things were meant to be literal and some things were just stories?
It depends. Some things has to be taken literally, some are metaphors. Ask me and I can share with you. Then ask God and by the power of the Holy Ghost you will know if it is true. When Spirit testifies you will know in your mind and in your heart that it is true.


Interesting, Alla.

Then who is to know who had the influence from the holy ghost and who is faking it? How would Fat Mac's claim of divine guidance be any different from Paul's claim?

Or, more relevant to you, How does Andrea Yates get labeled as crazy for the voices she heard where god told her to kill her children but Josephus? No, that was god.

How can you tell, Alla?

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08-12-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 11:28 AM)Fat Mac Wrote:  I'm aware of the arguments against Christians "cherry picking" the Bible, only following the stuff they like, the argument that God is evil because of his Old Testament actions, taking the Bible literally, etc.

My point is: why does the Bible have to be taken literally? Why can't I think some things were meant to be literal and some things were just stories?

Saul of Tarsus was completely insane. I think he was just another one who set out to start his own version of religion and add time after he was probably already dismissed,, people tired of all the rules and laws began their own thing and thanked him. There's not a whole lot of niceness coming from him.

Honestly, I don't think any of it should be taken literally. I think, often, those who don't take it in any literal sense are also the most likely to hold on to their beliefs.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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08-12-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Then who is to know who had the influence from the holy ghost and who is faking it?
Only those who have influence of the Holy Ghost. If you have influence of the Holy Ghost you will know.

(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Or, more relevant to you, How does Andrea Yates get labeled as crazy for the voices she heard where god told her to kill her children but Josephus? No, that was god.
Nobody can know what is in her head and in her heart. That is why justice that we have is not always perfect. She could lie. She could be wrong. She could be mentally ill.

(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How can you tell, Alla?
By the power of the Holy Ghost, Cathym112.
If God wants to reveal truth to you about Andrea Yates, you will know what was in her head and in her heart. But usually God doesn't do this. Other people's hearts and minds are not our business.
That is why we have to rely on justice that we have in this life. This world is not perfect, we are not perfect, justice is not always right(perfect)
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08-12-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 04:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  Other people's hearts and minds are not our business.

Then, people who believe in god should be left to believe in their god and people who do not have any faith should be left to themselves. Is that correct?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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08-12-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 04:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Then who is to know who had the influence from the holy ghost and who is faking it?
Only those who have influence of the Holy Ghost. If you have influence of the Holy Ghost you will know.

Or you could lie. Or you could be wrong. Or you could be mentally ill.

Quote:
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Or, more relevant to you, How does Andrea Yates get labeled as crazy for the voices she heard where god told her to kill her children but Josephus? No, that was god.
Nobody can know what is in her head and in her heart. That is why justice that we have is not always perfect. She could lie. She could be wrong. She could be mentally ill.

Exactly. And how do we tell the difference?

Quote:
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How can you tell, Alla?
By the power of the Holy Ghost, Cathym112.
If God wants to reveal truth to you about Andrea Yates, you will know what was in her head and in her heart. But usually God doesn't do this. Other people's hearts and minds are not our business.
That is why we have to rely on justice that we have in this life. This world is not perfect, we are not perfect, justice is not always right(perfect)

In a criminal case, another's mind and heart is very much our business.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 04:14 PM)kim Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 04:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  Other people's hearts and minds are not our business.

Then, people who believe in god should be left to believe in their god and people who do not have any faith should be left to themselves. Is that correct?
You can say that.
But there is a way to know for yourself if there is God.

English is not my native language.
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08-12-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 04:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Then who is to know who had the influence from the holy ghost and who is faking it?
Only those who have influence of the Holy Ghost. If you have influence of the Holy Ghost you will know.

At no point did you answer my question. How you do, Alla, know who had the influence of the holy ghost and who only claimed to? (and didn't). See, the trouble with your system, is that any asshole can claim he is speaking for god. Like me, right now. I'm speaking for god. SHE says humans have it all wrong.

(08-12-2013 04:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Or, more relevant to you, How does Andrea Yates get labeled as crazy for the voices she heard where god told her to kill her children but Josephus? No, that was god.
Nobody can know what is in her head and in her heart. That is why justice that we have is not always perfect. She could lie. She could be wrong. She could be mentally ill.

Or her claim could be just as valid as anyone else making that claim. Like I said above, any asshole can claim they speak for god.

(08-12-2013 04:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 03:45 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How can you tell, Alla?
By the power of the Holy Ghost, Cathym112.
If God wants to reveal truth to you about Andrea Yates, you will know what was in her head and in her heart. But usually God doesn't do this. Other people's hearts and minds are not our business.
That is why we have to rely on justice that we have in this life. This world is not perfect, we are not perfect, justice is not always right(perfect)

So you can know which person had the holy ghost and which person didn't, because you yourself have the influence of the holy ghost? Sounds credible. Rolleyes

So god makes me a telepath? Able to "KNOW" what others are thinking/feeling? Wow. see, the trouble with people like you, is that you don't "KNOW" any of this. You believe, which is not the definition of knowing.

Just a word of advice. Try to avoid the word "know" in reference to things that are unknown. Its better for you to say, "I feel, I think, I believe" or people here will eat you alive.

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08-12-2013, 04:21 PM
RE: The Bible - all or nothing?
(08-12-2013 04:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  In a criminal case, another's mind and heart is very much our business.

Yeah. It kinda like makes all the difference in the world between premeditated homicide, manslaughter, negligent homicide, self-defense and an accident.

(08-12-2013 04:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  But there is a way to know for yourself if there is God.

Yeah. Girly calls it introspection. But I'm my own personal Lord and Savior, my own personal Jebus, so take it with a grain of salt. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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