The Bible ok'ing abortion????
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11-07-2014, 02:45 PM
The Bible ok'ing abortion????
So the topic of abortion in the U.S. has been a very popular one especially as of late. Me personally I agree with it being up to the person because every situation is different(i.e. rape, threatens the life of the baby, mother, or both). Usually when I bring up this most people who disagree with it turn to religious reason to why they don't think it's right. I've yet to have one of them quote the exact verse or even the book it's in exactly but they all swear it's against God's will.

So currently as some of you know I'm reading the bible beginning to end again and writing a paper on each book pointing out inconsistencies and such. I'm currently on the book, Numbers. Here's an excerpt where abortion is referenced:

Numbers 5: 11-31

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”


In past arguments about this I always asked where does God say abortion is bad(which I've never found) but the entire time there's a passage giving instructions on how to make a woman miscarry? Laugh out load I cannot wait until the next time someone brings up how it's a sin against God to just throw that in their face...although they'll back-peddle like they always do though.

In all seriousness though there are a few things I have to question here. First, Just a concoction of holy water and dirty will cause a miscarriage? Huh Secondly, If this mix does cause miscarriages the glory of your God stops the child being killed if the husband is the father of said child?
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11-07-2014, 04:23 PM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2014 04:27 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
I think Psalms 139:16 would be one of the favorite anti-abortion quotes I was aware of as a Christian: "For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."

But you read this 2 chapters earlier in Psalms 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

You're drunk Bible, go home.....

But yeah, it should be good for a chuckle if you let them know of the magical miscarriage juice.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-07-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
Laugh out load Christians care what the bible says
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11-07-2014, 06:35 PM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
(11-07-2014 02:45 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  So the topic of abortion in the U.S. has been a very popular one especially as of late. Me personally I agree with it being up to the person because every situation is different(i.e. rape, threatens the life of the baby, mother, or both). Usually when I bring up this most people who disagree with it turn to religious reason to why they don't think it's right. I've yet to have one of them quote the exact verse or even the book it's in exactly but they all swear it's against God's will.

So currently as some of you know I'm reading the bible beginning to end again and writing a paper on each book pointing out inconsistencies and such. I'm currently on the book, Numbers. Here's an excerpt where abortion is referenced:

Numbers 5: 11-31

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”


In past arguments about this I always asked where does God say abortion is bad(which I've never found) but the entire time there's a passage giving instructions on how to make a woman miscarry? Laugh out load I cannot wait until the next time someone brings up how it's a sin against God to just throw that in their face...although they'll back-peddle like they always do though.

In all seriousness though there are a few things I have to question here. First, Just a concoction of holy water and dirty will cause a miscarriage? Huh Secondly, If this mix does cause miscarriages the glory of your God stops the child being killed if the husband is the father of said child?

Although the pro-life movement is multi-faith, the majority are Catholics who don't follow the concept of Sola-Scriptura (which means the Bible is the only thing required for understanding God's will). So that would be why few would be able to give any bible verse regarding abortion.

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12-07-2014, 03:28 AM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
The damn book can be used to approve of, or damn, any old thing you want it to. There are certainly enough passages in the twisted little thing about killing babies and children that one could make the argument. God "aborted" the bloody human race at one point, with the exception of a drunk and his boat building family.

I personally always found it funny how many crosses (an implementation of death and torture) one can find at a "pro-life" event. Silly people.
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12-07-2014, 04:12 AM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
(11-07-2014 02:45 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  ...
Laugh out load I cannot wait until the next time someone brings up how it's a sin against God to just throw that in their face...although they'll back-peddle like they always do though.
...

I have had the delicious pleasure of using that one a couple of times already.

There was no back-peddling but some assistance was required to lift jaw from floor.

Big Grin

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12-07-2014, 07:21 AM
Re: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
Why isn't, The Bible says the darndest things a show yet? It's unlimited entertainment

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12-07-2014, 09:44 AM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
(11-07-2014 02:45 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  In past arguments about this I always asked where does God say abortion is bad(which I've never found) but the entire time there's a passage giving instructions on how to make a woman miscarry? Laugh out load I cannot wait until the next time someone brings up how it's a sin against God to just throw that in their face...although they'll back-peddle like they always do though.

The Bible prohibits murder and abortion is simply murder in which the victim is still in his mother's womb.

Quote:In all seriousness though there are a few things I have to question here. First, Just a concoction of holy water and dirty will cause a miscarriage? Huh Secondly, If this mix does cause miscarriages the glory of your God stops the child being killed if the husband is the father of said child?

If the woman miscarries it will be because of God's judgment, not the result of the water she had drunk. God created life and so has the authority to end it whenever he wants. The reason murder is a sin is that it is a usurpation of God's authority and so is a rebellion against him.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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12-07-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
(11-07-2014 02:45 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  So the topic of abortion in the U.S. has been a very popular one especially as of late. Me personally I agree with it being up to the person because every situation is different(i.e. rape, threatens the life of the baby, mother, or both). Usually when I bring up this most people who disagree with it turn to religious reason to why they don't think it's right. I've yet to have one of them quote the exact verse or even the book it's in exactly but they all swear it's against God's will.

So currently as some of you know I'm reading the bible beginning to end again and writing a paper on each book pointing out inconsistencies and such. I'm currently on the book, Numbers. Here's an excerpt where abortion is referenced:

Numbers 5: 11-31

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”


In past arguments about this I always asked where does God say abortion is bad(which I've never found) but the entire time there's a passage giving instructions on how to make a woman miscarry? Laugh out load I cannot wait until the next time someone brings up how it's a sin against God to just throw that in their face...although they'll back-peddle like they always do though.

In all seriousness though there are a few things I have to question here. First, Just a concoction of holy water and dirty will cause a miscarriage? Huh Secondly, If this mix does cause miscarriages the glory of your God stops the child being killed if the husband is the father of said child?


Hi take a look at http://www.evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm

I loved looking at this and I challenged a born again christian who has taken me as his personal mission to convert to his way of thanking and he just told me "its a wicked world out there!"

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12-07-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: The Bible ok'ing abortion????
(12-07-2014 09:44 AM)theophilus Wrote:  ...
The Bible prohibits murder
...

It prohibits the murder of Jews.

Not the pregnant women, non-virgins, men and boys of other tribes or child sacrifice, first born of Egypt etc. etc. etc.

(12-07-2014 09:44 AM)theophilus Wrote:  ...
and abortion is simply murder in which the victim is still in his mother's womb.
...

Except it isn't. So, there's that.

(12-07-2014 09:44 AM)theophilus Wrote:  ...
If the woman miscarries it will be because of God's judgment, not the result of the water she had drunk. God created life and so has the authority to end it whenever he wants. The reason murder is a sin is that it is a usurpation of God's authority and so is a rebellion against him.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

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