The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
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05-05-2015, 02:45 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 03:13 AM by Dex.)
The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
So my background is Independent Baptist. My church set up a website in 2008 or 2009 and began posting various articles for members to read. One article was titled "The Bible's Proof", which proved very 'useful' for me in 2010 when I first started doubting. I found the article at its source over at wayoflife.org (a treasure trove of fundamentalist articles, including tons about evolution) here:

The Bible's Proof

I thought those of you interested in dissecting Christian apologetics might like to give it a read. I've copy-pasted the bullet points below, and I'll go ahead and write a response, not because I'm great or knowledgeable at counter-apolgetics but because I don't want to be a lazy poster.

1. The testimony of Jesus Christ proves that the Bible is the Word of God.

2. The Bible’s unique construction proves that it is the Word of God.

3. The confidence and sincerity of the Bible’s authors prove that it is the Word of God.

4. Fulfilled prophecy proves the Bible is the Word of God.

5. The Bible’s factualness and scientific accuracy prove that it is the Word of God.

6. The Bible’s candor proves that it is the Word of God.

7. The Bible’s indestructibility proves that it is the Word of God.

8. The Bible’s universal appeal proves that it is the Word of God.

9. The Bible’s doctrine of salvation proves it is the Word of God.


---

My (inadequate) responses to some of the points; feel free to skip:

1. First Point: A pervasive theme in Christianity is the overwhelming shittiness of human beings, so why is the fact that this applies also to the church "founders" a point for Biblical veracity? Besides, the real founder is supposedly Jesus, and he's friggin' perfect. So yeah, "When someone invents a religion, he glorifies its leaders..." definitely applies to Christianity.
Second Point: Hundreds of eyewitnesses whom we only know about because of the writings of one guy. Not really convincing, in my opinion.
Third Point: Any good storyteller is going to develop his or her characters, especially after they've experienced a significant event. So what? Do we have reliable documentation of the resurrection itself, as well as the behavior of Christians before and after?
Fourth Point: This is just a stupid point.

2. Given that the Bible was assembled meticulously by a bunch of people with a singular goal, this point doesn't mean much to me. Besides, given all the scholarly information on how the Bible was written and put together, I suspect that there's information in this point that is just wrong. But I've yet to study said scholarly information yet. On my to-do list.

3. This is mostly just using the Bible to prove the Bible.

4. Again, most of this is using the Bible to prove the Bible. The bit about Israel is intriguing to me, especially all the crazy shit that's happened to them and how they became a nation again in the '48, but I haven't seen anything while looking into that that convinced me the Bible was true.

5. This'll be a little longer. As expected, almost everything in this section comes from Job.

"The Bible says man is a sinner, and this is not difficult to confirm." Just, Facepalm

"Though the Bible contradicts evolutionary theories, it does not contradict any established scientific fact." Laughat

"Job said the earth is hung upon nothing." A mention of gravitational forces and the physics of orbiting objects would have been great.

"Job said the air has weight." No, he (sort of) said the wind has weight. He probably felt the wind pushing on him and saw it pushing the trees and concluded it has weight. He didn't say, "air, like everything, is made of atoms which have mass, and due to gravity, the air has weight." That would've been something.

"Job described the springs of the sea." I don't have anything to say here.

"Job understood that light has a way and that darkness has a place." Okay this one is just ridiculous. You're outright lying, at least looking at versions other than the KJV. They read like both light and darkness have a "place" where they reside. The King James Version reads, "Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof?" While I can see what the apologist would argue (that "way" means "journey" or "road", as "in the way" is often found in the Bible when describing a person moving from one place to another, and thus Job is saying light is moving) I think the NIV rewording has it right ("What is the way to the abode of light?") Based on the word "dwelleth", I think it's clearly asking how to get to where light comes from. That said, even if this is a demonstration that the author of Job understood that light moves and darkness is stationary, 1) that doesn't seem like a hard conclusion to reach, and 2) darkness isn't a thing...

"The Bible says that light creates wind" I don't see how this is what the specified verse is saying, but regardless, it's not exactly accurate to say "light creates wind" ya loons. Wind is caused by atmospheric pressure differentials, which can be caused by heat, which comes from the sun, yes; but heat isn't light. Facepalm

"Job describes the amazing hydrological cycle." All I'm seeing in these verses are rain and ascending vapours, not a description of "evaporation, condensation, atmospheric circulation, precipitation, run-off." While it would certainly be impressive if the author understood that water rises as vapor, I'm not really seeing a description of evaporation.

"The Bible says plants and animals reproduce after their kind." Well, plants and animals reproducing more of themselves was perfectly observable at the time, so it's hardly remarkable that they observed it, especially given that they were an agricultural society partly dependent upon that knowledge

"The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the stars are without number." A primitive human looking up at the vast sky and declaring that the heavens cannot be measured and the stars are beyond counting? Whaaat? Anyway, that's not what Genesis 22:17 says. It just says God will multiply Abraham's seed as the stars of the heaven. Assuming that doesn't mean stars reproduce sexually, I want to know where Abraham's 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 descendants are. Also, the Jeremiah verse says the foundations of the earth can't be searched out. Depending on what is meant by "foundations" here, I'm not sure that's true...

"The Bible says there are paths in the sea." What you're saying this is saying, I'm not sure it's saying that..

"The Bible says the life is in the blood." Not surprising in a religion centered around blood sacrifice.

Much of Job is very metaphorical, hard-to-follow jibber-jabber, so I'm not sure how pulling out the few words/phrases that can be twisted to superficially sound kind of like what we know now from science proves that the Bible is factually and scientifically accurate.

6. Already addressed in point 1. The holy text of a religion obsessed with how shitty man is talking about how shitty man is doesn't prove the stuff in the text really happened. And it doesn't mean the text is divinely inspired either. Tons of writings by humans about other humans, real or fictional, include the faults of their subjects.

7. An interesting historical sequence to study, but doesn't prove anything.

8. The text of the most popular religion ever is also the most widely distributed text? Whaaaat?

9. Well, you're missing some steps. All that proves is that the Bible is special in at least one way. First you've got to prove that God exists. Then you've got to prove that his method of salvation is salvation through grace. Then I could see you trying to use this argument to prove that the Bible was his true word. (This is ignoring all the Christian sects that believe works are necessary)
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05-05-2015, 03:00 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof
Those "proofs" are just copy paste really. Just being on this forum I have heard them so many times from Christians who have come here to try and argue their "proof". I'm sure you can scout this section of the forum and find many who have debunked or explained how these are not proof. I think you did a fine job of refuting them yourself.

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05-05-2015, 03:56 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
There is a big ass mofo here that would come and tear this shit apart in a heartbeat.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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05-05-2015, 05:15 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
1. The testimony of Jesus Christ proves that the Bible is the Word of God.

Bible proves bible-circular

2. The Bible’s unique construction proves that it is the Word of God.

Bible proves bible-circular

3. The confidence and sincerity of the Bible’s authors prove that it is the Word of God.


Bible proves bible-circular

4. Fulfilled prophecy proves the Bible is the Word of God.

Bible proves bible-circular

5. The Bible’s factualness and scientific accuracy prove that it is the Word of God.

Not even close, just ignore cosmology, geology, biology, and every other branch of science, then I suppose you can pretend that it does.

6. The Bible’s candor proves that it is the Word of God.

Bible proves bible-circular

7. The Bible’s indestructibility proves that it is the Word of God.

Bible proves bible-circular. WTF does that even mean? Facepalm

8. The Bible’s universal appeal proves that it is the Word of God.

Argumentum Ad Populum

And let's ignore those countries that will throw you in jail or execute you for being Christian.

9. The Bible’s doctrine of salvation proves it is the Word of God.

Bible proves bible-circular

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-05-2015, 05:40 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
#7 - the bible is indestructable????


tell ya what -- give me a bible a quart of gasoline and a match - and I'll prove otherwise..................

.......................................

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05-05-2015, 05:50 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
(05-05-2015 05:40 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  #7 - the bible is indestructable????


tell ya what -- give me a bible a quart of gasoline and a match - and I'll prove otherwise..................

I thoughts too.

I read that and thought: Are they challenging me? I've got access to matches and I always have time for a fire, I'm good for some bible-burning!

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05-05-2015, 08:25 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
Ahhh! The circles, the circles, I'm so dizzy. Get me off this ride.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

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05-05-2015, 08:29 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
the Bible's inaccuracy, bad grammar, poor plot, zero character development, no coherent logic, contradiction prove it is the word of hallucinogenic men with bigoted biased political agendas
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05-05-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
(05-05-2015 08:25 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Ahhh! The circles, the circles, I'm so dizzy. Get me off this ride.

There's no end to them!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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05-05-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: The Bible's Proof (from a fundamentalist site)
(05-05-2015 08:29 AM)Ace Wrote:  the Bible's inaccuracy, bad grammar, poor plot, zero character development, no coherent logic, contradiction prove it is the word of hallucinogenic men with bigoted biased political agendas

You forgot the shitty formatting.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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