The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
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24-07-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
Indian Buddism is pretty much in line with what we know about the universe with all their talk of interconnectivity, being one with the larger universe etc....That doesn't mean anything other than that they where good guessers when it came to mythology.

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24-07-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
(24-07-2013 07:10 PM)Farag Fouda Wrote:  if really the Muslims have the theory of the big bang in their book, they would reveal it before the scientists .. they always wait for a new
discovery to claim after it that they have it in their book already.

Very true. No holy book has ever revealed to people any real knowledge about the world and how it works - some true theory or finding that would only be discovered or verified by other means much later. They're as ignorant as the people who wrote them - and the Israelites writing the Bible and the Arabs writing the Quran were quite backward indeed, compared to, say, the Greeks or Chinese (of either era!). And yet that would have been one of the simplest, most obvious proofs of some supernatural insight on the part of their writers.

Plenty of Christians are exactly the same. The creation account(s) are continuously reinterpreted in order to twist them into something a little closer to contemporary scientific consensus. Never mind the previous interpretations! This time we know what they really must have meant...
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24-07-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
(24-07-2013 08:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-07-2013 07:10 PM)Farag Fouda Wrote:  if really the Muslims have the theory of the big bang in their book, they would reveal it before the scientists .. they always wait for a new
discovery to claim after it that they have it in their book already.

Very true. No holy book has ever revealed to people any real knowledge about the world and how it works - some true theory or finding that would only be discovered or verified by other means much later. They're as ignorant as the people who wrote them - and the Israelites writing the Bible and the Arabs writing the Quran were quite backward indeed, compared to, say, the Greeks or Chinese (of either era!). And yet that would have been one of the simplest, most obvious proofs of some supernatural insight on the part of their writers.

Plenty of Christians are exactly the same. The creation account(s) are continuously reinterpreted in order to twist them into something a little closer to contemporary scientific consensus. Never mind the previous interpretations! This time we know what they really must have meant...
Rolleyes

Not only did the Qur'an NOT reveal anything, (just as the Hebrew Bible didn't), but if you examine the claim that there was science "revealed" which was not available at the time, it's actually quite the opposite. The reason Allah was chosen was (just as the Hebrew *god of the armies*, Yahweh, was chosen for his utility) Al-Ilah was "imported" or "copy/pasted from the already extant Arabic culture where the name Al-Ilah was the crescent phase of one of the most powerful gods, whose name was "Sin". Sin was the moon god. But the point is, to a terrestrial observer, with NO real astronomical knowledge, the moon looks to the naked eye as if it's larger than the sun and the stars. So the more powerful god was the one which they thought was larger, and more powerful, as it looked bigger, (mistakenly). The sun and stars were the children and relatives of the moon god. These celestial deities were originally written into the Qur'an by whoever cooked up Islam, then when they realized people were asking why the same 3 daughters of Sin were the daughters of Allah, they changed it, and made Muhammad appear to say, "the devil made me do it". The verses naming these 3 supposedly minor deities, (but in reality LARGER physical celestial objects), the three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, came to be known as the "Satanic Verses", and it's why that book caused such a furor, as any honest exam of the origins of that cult are as embarrassing to them, as the origins of Christianity.

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22-05-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
Big Bang & Big Crunch


The Christian Bible says that in the beginning God said "Let there be light" Genesis 1:3. However this turned out to be false. The universe was opaque to visible light (non-transparent) and photons couldn't travel at all. After the Big Bang the universe was primarily Hydrogen, Helium and a tiny bit of Lithium. However when a gas is too hot it becomes ionized (loses the electrons) and becomes opaque (like today's smoke). In the beginning the universe was opaque to visible light (non-transparent). After 380,000 years the universe cooled enough and it became transparent to visible light. For other wavelengths it was opaque for a billion years. So "Let there be light" turned out to be false. However the Quran correctly said that at the beginning it was SMOKE, that is, a hot non-transparent gas:

[Quran 41.11] Then He directed himself to the Heaven when it was SMOKE, and then said to it and to Earth: "Come willingly or by force" they said "We do come willingly"
How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that it was just smoke after the Big Bang?

The universe was created in a Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, is still expanding today, and billions of years from now it might recollapse by its own gravity with a Big Crunch (or continue expanding forever, Big Chill). Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that on the first day of creation, God made the heavens and the Earth meshed together, tight and compact (Big Bang), continues to expand it into the universe we know today and at the last day God will recompress it into its original state (Big Crunch). About the first day (Big Bang), Allah says:

[Quran 21.30] Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were meshed together then We ripped them apart? And then We made of water everything living? Would they still not believe?
In the Quran the Heavens expanded from a single point.

Cosmologists just confirmed the existence of "Dark Energy", a mysterious repulsive force that acts in opposite to gravity. As the distance increases, the attractive gravitational force decreases but this mysterious repulsive force increases. This repulsive force is pushing galaxies apart; the greater the distance the greater the repulsion. Scientists today do not know what this "Dark Energy" is, but they know that it is causing the entire universe to expand at an increasing rate.

[Quran 51.47] And the heaven, We built it with craftsmanship and We are still expanding.
The Quran told us about this expansion 1400 years before it was discovered.

There are three possibilities to how the universe could end: Big Crunch (Quran), Big Chill and the Big Rip. NASA recently ruled out the third scenario (No Big Rip; see also: Universe Today). This leaves the universe with only two possible endings: Big Chill or Big Crunch, depending on what this Dark Energy turns out to be. Learn more: Expansion of Universe in Quran. In the Quran God promises to make the Big Crunch:

[Quran 21.104] On the day when We will fold the heaven, like the folder compacts the books, and as We originated the first creation We shall return it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will deliver.
Here God promises to make this Big Crunch however not by gravity but rather by folding the Heavens like a book, that is, by the same mechanism He controls wormholes. This means that this Big Crunch can begin and end in a fraction of a second!

Also after this Big Crunch is over, God promises to recreate those heavens and Earth once more before Judgment Day:

[Quran 14.48] On the day when Earth will be swapped by another Earth and so will be the heavens; and all (creatures) will resurrect before the One Dominant God.
[Quran 36.81] Is He not, who created the heavens and the Earth, capable of creating others like them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Creator. His command, if He wanted a thing, is that He only says to it, "BE" and it becomes! So glorified is He in whose hands is the dominion of all things, and to Him you shall be returned.
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22-05-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
(11-11-2010 05:35 AM)TheIslammiracle Wrote:  The following post is from our
'Quran Miracles Debunked' Facebook Community page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Quran-Mira...7882645130

and our 'Quran Miracles Debunked' Youtube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIslammiracle
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Question to us : Muslims say that the Big Bang theory is in the Quran , is there any truth to that?

Answer: Not in the slightest.
We actually have a video on this subject, but haven't added it to the play list yet (along with 8 others) as we want to remake them first to fit better with our newer videos.



The Quran states : 'The heavens and the Earth were joined and we clove them asunder'.
This does not conform in any way shape or form to the reality of the situation, as demonstrated in 3 points..

(1) Let's do the Maths..
The Universe is 13.8 Billion years old
The Earth is 6 Billion years old
So how can both begin at the same time?
The explanation is that they didn't.
Without going into in-depth Cosmology, The Earth was a result of a number of subsequent and common occurrences which required Hydrogen Formation and dying stars, neither of which existed or were possible at the beginning moment of the Universe.

A common nonsensical response argument is that what the Quran *really means* is that the Earth's materials were at the beginning.
Sadly, it's yet another great failing in the grasp of basic Education in the field.
With only the exception of Hydrogen, all elements to form the Earth were created through Nuclear Fusion inside the core of a star and even hydrogen itself could only form after the universe began to cool, the entire process up until the elements required for Earth existed ANYWHERE in the universe was over several Billion years , so once again, NO, the Quran is wrong.


(2) What is the Earth in contrast with everything else?
The answer is next to nothing.
Simply in our own galaxy, there are an estimated 100+ Billion stars, most of which have solar systems and plants like the ones surrounding us, and this is simply 100's of Billions of other Galaxies throughout the vastness of the universe...The argument that the Earth played any form of Vital role in the existence of the universe is absurd in light of the Evidence..

However, If you believe the Earth is the centre of a universe, solely surrounded by a handful of orbiting celestial bodies and that stars are simply low level lights ...then this argument makes perfect sense...
Not in a vast universe where we exist in a generic area of a typical galaxy among many.


(3) The verse makes no sense.
The last time I checked, the Earth was a part OF the universe, not APART from it.
The verse itself becomes confusing by the Muslims argument , but becomes entirely clear when we read the verse in the authentic context..

The Quran simply parrots common beliefs of the time period and nothing more.
The Qurans statement of separating the Earth from the Heavens is nothing new, the concept is found in all surrounding and Earlier religions/Cultures of the region.

Christianity, Judaism, Sumerian Mythology for example, all talk about a separation between the Heavens and he Earth, do they describe the Big Bang? Of course not and no one assumed this to be the case.
The reality of the situation is that the claim creates a belief that the Heavens (now known as the upper sky) and the Earth were separated (as with a brick lifted off the top of another Brick) to simply create a space between them.
All the Quran is doing (a consistent find in the Quran) is giving a vague synopsis of local beliefs which have been incorporated to give the Quran a sense of credibility and nothing more, especially not what some muslims would have you believe.

In conclusion, the Quran does not demonstrate the Big Bang theory and only appeals to archaic beliefs of creation, disproving its 'divinity' .

But let's say its intention WAS to explain the big bang theory...As we've proved - it couldn't be more wrong, so if it can't be accurate in telling us where it came from, how can we possibly consider it to be accurate to tell us where we're going?...



Time is Relative - Age of Universe


Time is relative. We know from Einstein that my clock and your clock will not run at the same rate. Time (or rate of our clocks) depends on acceleration and/or gravity. If my clock accelerates and/or is in a strong gravitational field then it will run slower than your clock. Quran 22.47 compares time of Earth with time at Paradise/Hell (1 day vs 1000 years). While Quran 70.4 compares time on Earth with time in wormholes (1 day vs 50,000 years).

Moslems believe that Paradise and Hell are both much bigger and much more massive than Earth (but still much smaller than God's Throne). The theory of general relativity says that time passes slower near an object more massive than Earth (clocks run slower in stronger gravitational fields). So according to general relativity, time should pass in Paradise/Hell much slower than on Earth. Moslems say that this is what Allah says. It is stated in the Quran that 1 day in Paradise/Hell measures a 1000 years on Earth:

[Quran 22.47] They challenge you to bring forth that torture [in Hell] and Allah will not break His promise; a day of your Lord [Paradise/Hell promise] is like a thousand years of what you count.
Here God promises those who do not believe in Hell and punishment that each day of their torture in Hell will measure a thousand years on Earth. So according to the Quran, time passes faster on Earth than in Paradise/Hell. But this agrees with the theory of general relativity which says that time passes slower near bigger mass. Paradise and Hell are much more massive than Earth and time should pass there much slower than on Earth.

Christians believe that God created the universe in 6 earthly days and rested on the 7th. Moslems believe that 6 days passed at God's Throne but we experienced 13.7 billion years on Earth: Moslems believe that God is not bound to His Throne; rather He created it and set it as a reference. The Quran says that God's Throne is even wider than the whole universe; so how about the mass of God's Throne? God's Throne is much more massive than Earth. Time should pass there much slower than on Earth:

Our solar system is 4.567 billion years old. Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.567 bln years ago. However the universe is 13.7 ± 0.2 bln years old. This places the age of Earth at one third the age of the universe (4.567 bln/13.7 bln = 1/3). Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that in God's Throne time Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old (2/6 = 1/3):

[Quran 7.54] And your Lord, Allah, who created the Heavens and the Earth in six days and then settled on the Throne...
Those six days are on the Throne; so the frame of reference for creation is the Throne, not Earth.


[Quran 41.9] Say: "Is it that you deny Him [Allah] who created the Earth in two days? And you claim others to be equal to Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds."
[Quran 50.38] And we have created the Heavens and Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN in six days and We were not touched by fatigue.
All those days are on the Throne; the frame of reference for creation is still the Throne. When God says that He created the Heavens, Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN (including you and me) in six days this means that He is referring to the period of existence. Earth has been in existence for 2 days (out of 6).

In God's Throne time, Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old. This makes the age of Earth to be one third the age of the universe (2/6 = 1/3). Similarly in Earth time, the age of Earth is 4.567 billion years while the age of the universe is 13.7 billion years; this is also one third (4.567 bln/13.7 bln = 1/3). So it is the same ratio in Earth time or in God's Throne time. The theory of general relativity explains why time at God's Throne passes slower than on Earth. General relativity explains why 6 days passed at God's Throne but we measured it as 13.7 billion years (that is each day at God's Throne measures around 2.28 billion years on Earth). So according to the Quran:

God's Throne > Paradise/Hell > Earth

The smaller the mass, the faster the time.

We are sure that time is relative, that is, the age of the universe is different for observers with clocks running at different rates. For example, there exists an observer who measures the age of the universe to be 3 billion years, however he also measures the age of Earth to be 1 billion years. But the Quran presented it as a ratio (1/3) and this ratio turned out to be correct for any observer (whatever the clock rate). If the Quran presented it in any form other than a ratio it would have been wrong for different observers.

Quran 32.5 is time vs distance; this gives us speed of angels which turned out to be the speed of light. However Quran 22.47 and Quran 70.4 are time vs time (no distance); this is time dilation. Quran 22.47 compares time of Earth with time at Paradise/Hell (1 day vs 1000 years). While Quran 70.4 compares time on Earth with time in wormholes (1 day vs 50,000 years).



(The Christian Bible puts the creation of Earth on day one; making the age of Earth equal to the age of the universe. So the age of the universe according to the Bible is six thousand years).
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22-05-2014, 02:55 AM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
Fuck you and your necro-posting copy-pasta bullshit.

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22-05-2014, 04:40 AM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
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Muhammad disapproves of necroposting.

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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22-05-2014, 06:58 AM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-05-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: The Big Bang Theory in the Quran?
(22-05-2014 01:00 AM)ahmad Wrote:  Time is Relative - Age of Universe

If you close one eye, stand on your left foot, and flap your arms like a chicken you can read the Koran that way.

If you get a cup of coffee, sit down, turn on a good reading lamp, and read the Koran you will see it is fiction.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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