The Big Bang
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-06-2011, 08:34 AM
 
RE: The Big Bang
(31-05-2011 02:44 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Where are the benefits for humanity? Knowledge is nice and I wholeheartedly encourage it. But having knowledge only for the sake of knowing makes my seriously sceptical.
...

I really which the LHC advocacy project could state if there are some benefits for mankind other then enlarging our knowledge. As long as they can't prove that it will, we should be at least sceptical.

The best science is created useless. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson




Pretty much every scientific discovery that led to new technology was never intended for that technology, or could ever predict that it eventually would.

Generators and our electricity based technology came from, as carl sagan explains in the video, Maxwell's tinkering with a neat little useless phenomena. All technology using lasers came from Einstein's theory of quantum radiation, the microwave oven came from communications technology which again came from the study of electromagnetism, the MRI from astrophysics and so on.
Just like Einstein couldn't predict bar-code scanners, we can't predict what today's scientific research will create in the future.



About debating whether or not the big bang is real, how do you debate someone who deny observed fact just because it doesn't make sense to them? Undecided
Quote this message in a reply
01-06-2011, 10:09 AM
RE: The Big Bang
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 07:46 AM
RE: The Big Bang
(29-05-2011 01:50 PM)Indoril Wrote:  Heres my piece on the BBT:

Its the same as Creationist thinking.

Yes, I went there. Many of the scientific community firmly believe (know) that this is what happened, just as the creationists believe that some invisible Sky Daddy appeared out of nowhere, and just happened to have made everything. Look, I'm not as intelligent as one one the scientists, nor do I claim as such. For all I know, the BBT is factual, but the way people are arguing it these days does make me wonder.

The way everyone is portraying it is the same way creationists are portraying their own theories, with fanaticism. I've already had to defend myself on all sides during a youtube vid, and I'll most likely do it here. Just bare in mind, the way your portraying the theory is pretty much the same as a creationist is with theirs.

My evidence towards this development? Simple.
Scientist: "This is what happened. This is what happened. This is what happened."
Creationist: "This is what happened. This is what happened. This is what happened."

See the pattern yet? And when I call on both, I get bombarded with "Oh your not an atheist, your a creationist" when I call on an atheist who firmly believes in the BBT. I hear a lot more colorful language from the creationist side, though, which always makes me laugh.

The Big Bang Theory is starting to look more like a religion, people, which is making me question it like the good little atheist that I am. Its best to stop repeating old theories, and actually finding out for ourselves. We do NOT know what happened, but we can guess at it. If you claim that the BBT is factual, your going to get laughed at. Why? Because the word "THEORY" is stuck right in it. If it was factual, then the word would not be in there, correct?

That's a joke, right?

Creationist thinking is based on faith and the bible. There is no independent evidence to support it. The Big Bang, on the other hand, is supported by a hundred years worth of research by multiple scientists on a variety of topics that all lead to the same conclusion. Even people who were trying to disprove the theory (and there were plenty) ended up stymied by it. That you don't understand all the science and haven't taken the time to learn about all the details on the evidence is not proof that the theory is not true. People are pretty fanatical about the belief that 70% of the Earth's surface is covered by water. Maybe we should just consider that on the same level as religion too and start to question it.

Put another way: ignorance is not a negotiating position.

Buddy Christ - I think your comment about people not understanding science is 100% spot on.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 08:59 AM
RE: The Big Bang
(03-06-2011 07:46 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 01:50 PM)Indoril Wrote:  Heres my piece on the BBT:

Its the same as Creationist thinking.

Yes, I went there. Many of the scientific community firmly believe (know) that this is what happened, just as the creationists believe that some invisible Sky Daddy appeared out of nowhere, and just happened to have made everything. Look, I'm not as intelligent as one one the scientists, nor do I claim as such. For all I know, the BBT is factual, but the way people are arguing it these days does make me wonder.

The way everyone is portraying it is the same way creationists are portraying their own theories, with fanaticism. I've already had to defend myself on all sides during a youtube vid, and I'll most likely do it here. Just bare in mind, the way your portraying the theory is pretty much the same as a creationist is with theirs.

My evidence towards this development? Simple.
Scientist: "This is what happened. This is what happened. This is what happened."
Creationist: "This is what happened. This is what happened. This is what happened."

See the pattern yet? And when I call on both, I get bombarded with "Oh your not an atheist, your a creationist" when I call on an atheist who firmly believes in the BBT. I hear a lot more colorful language from the creationist side, though, which always makes me laugh.

The Big Bang Theory is starting to look more like a religion, people, which is making me question it like the good little atheist that I am. Its best to stop repeating old theories, and actually finding out for ourselves. We do NOT know what happened, but we can guess at it. If you claim that the BBT is factual, your going to get laughed at. Why? Because the word "THEORY" is stuck right in it. If it was factual, then the word would not be in there, correct?

That's a joke, right?

Creationist thinking is based on faith and the bible. There is no independent evidence to support it. The Big Bang, on the other hand, is supported by a hundred years worth of research by multiple scientists on a variety of topics that all lead to the same conclusion. Even people who were trying to disprove the theory (and there were plenty) ended up stymied by it. That you don't understand all the science and haven't taken the time to learn about all the details on the evidence is not proof that the theory is not true. People are pretty fanatical about the belief that 70% of the Earth's surface is covered by water. Maybe we should just consider that on the same level as religion too and start to question it.

Put another way: ignorance is not a negotiating position.

Buddy Christ - I think your comment about people not understanding science is 100% spot on.

To refute the big bang you have to ask only one question "Is space-time warped by gravity?" The answer was proven by Einstein and Edington in 1919. The most massive gravity source we know of is toward the Great Attractor, pulling the galaxies toward it. Every electromagnetic wave (including light) that has ever left any galaxy has been bent by the mass of it's own galaxy, any stars or planets it passes by and the Great Attractor. Our ruler, electromagnetic waves, is warped in untold ways. We can not know with any thing close to certainty how far any galaxy is, or what it looks like. Hubble's Constant is a joke. You can't use a ruler that is bent to hell and back.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: The Big Bang
Forgive me if I put a little more faith in people with actual knowledge and doing actual research than the ranting diatribe of someone on a message board.

I'm just funny that way.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 01:43 PM
RE: The Big Bang
(03-06-2011 11:39 AM)BnW Wrote:  Forgive me if I put a little more faith in people with actual knowledge and doing actual research than the ranting diatribe of someone on a message board.

I'm just funny that way.

You're funny cause you have faith, I'm funny because I have logic. Where am I wrong. Today's astronomer tell you a galaxy is 10billion ly's away, but then he says electromagnetic waves are bent by gravity? You can't have it both ways. You can't do measurements with a bent ruler especially if you don't know how much it's bent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 02:49 PM
RE: The Big Bang
The only thing I have faith in is that your logic is completely and totally flawed. I'm not a physicist but I'm pretty sure if there was some obvious "D'uh!" refute to the Big Bang theory, then guys like Stephen Hawking and Neil deGrasse Tyson would be all over it and I wouldn't simply be reading about it on internet message forums.

Which is more likely: a) that you are wrong and that the greatest minds in physics over the past 50 years who have worked on this model have an explanation for any obvious challenge or b) that you are right and there is some grand conspiracy amongst physicists the world over (and that's really what we are talking about here) to pretend there is not some basic, obvious flaw in the theory that they have been pushing for the past 50 years or so?

I'm going to be even funnier and go with option A here. Call me crazy.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 04:01 PM
RE: The Big Bang
(03-06-2011 02:49 PM)BnW Wrote:  The only thing I have faith in is that your logic is completely and totally flawed. I'm not a physicist but I'm pretty sure if there was some obvious "D'uh!" refute to the Big Bang theory, then guys like Stephen Hawking and Neil deGrasse Tyson would be all over it and I wouldn't simply be reading about it on internet message forums.

Which is more likely: a) that you are wrong and that the greatest minds in physics over the past 50 years who have worked on this model have an explanation for any obvious challenge or b) that you are right and there is some grand conspiracy amongst physicists the world over (and that's really what we are talking about here) to pretend there is not some basic, obvious flaw in the theory that they have been pushing for the past 50 years or so?

I'm going to be even funnier and go with option A here. Call me crazy.

My logic is flawed; so gravity doesn't warp space and time? To bad Alberts not around so you could tell him. You might tell NASA also, they send up sattelites to measure the time warp of earth. I don't put a lot of "faith" in the greatest minds of physics. It was those same great minds who said the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe. The big bang is worse because those "great minds" should know a lot better.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 05:54 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2011 06:48 PM by BnW.)
RE: The Big Bang
(03-06-2011 04:01 PM)captgalectro Wrote:  My logic is flawed; so gravity doesn't warp space and time?

That's not even remotely close to what I said. Reading comprehension is our friend and we should embrace it.

As for the rest of your post, now would be a good time for everyone's favorite game: Let's Find The Irony!
Sorry, one other point I wanted to make: there is no "one" piece of evidence that is the basis for the Big Bang. Ignoring how absurd it is to take a concept "like gravity bends light" and think that "hey, no one else ever thought of that before, I must be a genius!" rather than it has already been accounted for in the equations, the theory itself is built upon a number of distinct pieces of evidence, each a piece of a puzzle that was put together of many, many decades and reinforced over the past 30 years as our ability to look further and further into space has increased.

You've already proven you don't understand the theories and science behind the Big Bang with your comment on the CMB, and it is fairly obvious that you have not studied this at all or you wouldn't be making such claims. You want to dispute the evidence as it exists, that's fine. But, to ignore 99% of the science and pick on one small point that has already been dealt with and say "HA!" is not exactly credible.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2011, 07:45 PM
RE: The Big Bang
(03-06-2011 01:43 PM)captgalectro Wrote:  You're funny cause you have faith, I'm funny because I have logic.

Poor logic
Quote:Where am I wrong.
More to the point, where are you right? If you're going to make such a claim, back it up with some actual information.
Quote:Today's astronomer tell you a galaxy is 10billion ly's away
You do realize that when they estimate a distance like that, it's just that. An estimate. With a margin of error of millions.
Quote: but then he says electromagnetic waves are bent by gravity? You can't have it both ways.
Why not?
Quote: You can't do measurements with a bent ruler especially if you don't know how much it's bent.
If you know approximately how much it's bent, then you can most definitely make a pretty good approximation. You talk as if scientists/astronomers/physicists are claiming they can tell us exactly how big the universe is, the exact size of distant galaxies, and the exact rate at which the universe is expanding. They're not. They have a pretty good idea though. And by putting those estimates to use, they have VERY valid evidence for TBB.

It's like saying, "that car is red", and you are responding with, "but what SHADE of red. Unless you can tell me EXACTLY where the shade of red sits on the color spectrum I won't believe the car is red."

Dude, the car is red. I'll get back to you with the shade.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: