The Big Think Creationism debate
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24-10-2013, 01:34 AM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(23-10-2013 06:22 PM)DeavonReye Wrote:  I feel like I should point out that I have never done any illegal drugs. Barely drink alcohol. I'm so hedonistic.
Glad to hear it. You seem to think you have made a little moral victory here and can be perceived by us here as being morally superior than we otherwise might have thought. Good for you.

Not all hedonists take drugs. I never said that. They are devoted to whatever they perceive will give them the maximum pleasure. In fact we live in a hedonistic society where God plays a very small part and pleasure seeking is the highest good. This is why people devote themselves to hobbies, food, movies, music as an end in themselves. I agree with Peter Hitchens that weed is the symbol of the ultimate devotees of this lifestyle. It expresses the extreme of hedonism. Spiraling rates
of cannabis use is symptomatic of growing hedonism in our society as are many other social ills such as alcoholism and sexual immorality.
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24-10-2013, 01:50 AM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(23-10-2013 06:23 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  The most I ever drank was when I still called myself a Catholic.
No doubt there are hedonistic Catholics too who seek pleasure from material things of this world rather than the peace and joy which comes from the pursuit of spiritual things. Any kind of hedonistic behaviour is to be avoided and confessed. Excessive or habitual drinking, any habit which is pursued for the pleasure it gives even though it is harmful. Material pleasures such as excessive TV watching or any other pursuit which takes one away from prayer and service of God and man is sin.

The chief end of man and his primary vocation is to know God, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven. Any activity which is not ordered toward this final end is destructive and sinful.

This does not mean that Catholics may not watch TV, or drink alcohol, but the Lord Jesus teaches us to deny ourselves "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."

To deny ourselves is to restrict the things which give pleasure and devote oneself to following Christ.

This actually results in greater joy and contentment in this life than can be obtained with the Hedonistic lifestyle.

For a demonstration of this I refer you to the story Brown Bread and Honey.
It is about a King who lives a hedonistic luxurious epicurean lifestyle and has cooks from the world over who made the most exotic dishes for him. Always in pursuit of the latest fantastic dish he eventually gets bored and nothing impresses him anymore. The food brings him no delight. He sits on his throne stuffed all day.
One day in his rage he sacks his cooks and after a number of weeks with no food he becomes famished and walks into the woods where he meets a small boy who gives him a simple meal of brown bread and honey. His senses come to life and he has never tasted anything so fantastic as this simple food and his love and appreciation for life was restored.

This story demonstrates that it is by restraining our desires that we can experience greater contentment, pleasure and joy in this life, as well as attain eternal joy in heaven.
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24-10-2013, 07:43 AM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
It is not a hedonistic luxury to get pleasure from a hobby, a food item or dish, an intimate relationship, or some entertainment. Music does not move you at all? Are you saying a person should only have some strong feelings about a religion and nothing else? This whole thing about everthing in this material world being toxic and evil is friggin insane! If you stop telling yourself, and others, this nonsense you may just feel a bit better about things.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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24-10-2013, 07:47 AM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(24-10-2013 07:43 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  It is not a hedonistic luxury to get pleasure from a hobby, a food item or dish, an intimate relationship, or some entertainment. Music does not move you at all? Are you saying a person should only have some strong feelings about a religion and nothing else? This whole thing about everthing in this material world being toxic and evil is friggin insane! If you stop telling yourself, and others, this nonsense you may just feel a bit better about things.
No. I am pretty sure I did not say that. This is where discernment and wisdom is required. The point I am making is that if we restrain our desires and direct our efforts towards God and spiritual things that we will obtain immeasurably more enjoyment from our hobbies, food, relationships and entertainments. Making these physical things an end in themselves is a recipe for emptiness and the hobbies from which you sought fulfillment will end up providing no lasting enjoyment.
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24-10-2013, 08:03 AM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2013 08:10 AM by excubitor.)
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(24-10-2013 07:43 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Music does not move you at all?
This is an interesting one and really illustrates my point. Today we have music in abundance, coming out of our ears, on our ipods, on the radio, in the lift, in the shopping mall.

I remember watching a movie about men in a prisoner of war camp for years. One of the prisoners escaped and instead of heading for the hills he went to the main communications office and broke in and started piping a recording of a woman singing through the loudspeaker of the POW camp. The prisoners who had not heard music for years stopped what they were doing fell silent and wept as they revelled in the beauty of the music. Then the guards took back the communications tower and the music stopped. An incredible moment in time. Did these men not experience the profound joy and movement of music more than any of us, even though they only heard it for a few minutes?

Yet we might hear the same recording and be unmoved because our appetites are sated with an overabundance of music.

I heard the story of a poor woman who spent her entire life in the one town rarely travelling to the nearest city. However this woman built through her labour a beautiful garden. She knew the names of all the plants in her garden. She knew all the creatures, which were harmful and which were good. She knew how to fertilise and propogate the plants in her garden. She knew what plants to grow together for a harvest. She knew the coming of the seasons and which plant would flower at which time and which plant would fruit at which time. She grew her food and ate nutritious meals from the bounty of her garden. She lived and eventually died in her garden, a content and satisfied woman.

Did this woman not find more wisdom, more knowledge, more satifaction and contentment, more enjoyment than the woman who devoted herself to obtaining all the pleasures of the world, who ate in the finest restaurants, who traveled to many nations in the world? I say yes she did.

So if it be true that a woman devoted to her garden is more highly praised than a woman devoted to society, fine dining and travel, then how much more highly praised is a nun who is devoted to God alone. What is greater, to know Christ and him crucified or to know your garden and the seasons? And a nun who is a bride of Christ; does she not enjoy her meager meal more than we enjoy our feasts? In fact she partakes of the feast of the Eucharist and obtains more delight and satisfaction from this, than kings enjoy from their feasts and banquets. Staggering. How can a person enjoy what atheists would regard as a miserable little wafer more than the hedonist and epicurean enjoys a fine dining experience?

This is a great mystery and shows that there is a deep spiritual component to life which is attached unseen to our observable physical existence. Great mysteries which are there to explore. Roads less traveled than a trek to Everest, and few there be that find it.
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24-10-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
I can get quite a bit of satisfaction from music without "a god". To attempt to PUT "a god" in it would [imo] cheapen it because I would have the unnecessary baggage of "is this god even here?" to muddy up the waters.

BTW, I am not concerned with whether or not people find me "more moral" by my statement above. It is just factual. Many vices of this world are empty. I'm just not easily swayed by them.
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