The Big Think Creationism debate
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25-08-2013, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2013 02:48 PM by theword.)
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 01:28 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 01:23 PM)theword Wrote:  Scientific proof is something that is considered measurable, demonstrable, and observable.
Do you consider DNA to be measurable, demonstrable and observable?
DNA does not prove evolution. Creationists can also apply DNA to creation because everyone is unique, just like God made us. Once again, yo have no proof.
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25-08-2013, 03:10 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2013 03:26 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 08:17 AM)theword Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 12:44 AM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  I am ridiculously curious on what your proposal on the diversity of species is. I am insanely interested on what you believe it to be. Is the world six thousand years old or is it billions? If God created all the animals the way they are why can't we find Chihuahua's in the distant past? Dogs are a great example of evolution seeing the radically different species erupt from a single ancestor. Same with Banana's. They came with our intervention. If you know what you are talking about then share it. I am willing to listen but you have to provide something with evidence and if you simply point at the Bible then we have nothing to talk about.

There is a large difference between the two of us. I am freaking willing to admit I am wrong and I will change my views with whats right. I have done that a couple times on this forum and elsewhere already. I want to be right but unfortunately for you I believe it isn't the same. Like friends I know and family I love you don't want to be right but would rather just continue to think you are right regardless of all the information against you. You can admit your bias or not but its the same I only have a handful of Christians I can think who could change and one is probably the closest person in my life but thinking that way is supposedly not Christian. If you think that way then you will never get to the truth no matter how blatant it is.
Christians have no problem with natural selection. Natural selection, however is no where near proof of evolution. Your Chihuahua is a good example. Dog breeders have been mixing and matching dogs to get different varieties for years. What would explain your comment about there being no Chihuahuas in distant past? Did they suddenly evolve?
I do not know how old the earth is. No one was there when it was formed, none of us were there, and there is no scientific measuring device capable of accurately measuring it. The age of the earth is purely speculation by creationists and evolutionists alike.
As far as proof goes, in order for something to be considered scientific, it must be measurable, demonstrable, and observable. Evolution fails in all 3 categories.
As far as changing is concerned, why would I change for an empty theory? At best, atheism and evolution is empty, even if proven true.

You did not answer my question. Besides evolution what do you believe diversified life on the planet? Did they simply appear out of nowhere which is a much more implausible belief that some Christian's have or did something else happen? You apparently know God so tell us.

Also, Natural Selection is very much indeed part of evolution. Please tell me your definition of Evolution and don't simply just copy and paste it from somewhere because I want to read your individual definition of it. It is the Theory of Evolution by means of Natural Selection for a reason. Natural Selection plays a very large part which you don't seem to understand.

Yes, dog breeders have been doing that for countless generations and now the Chihuahua exists. Now you already immediately have evolution wrong since you believe it happens suddenly which it does not. We did accelerate it with artificial selection by breeding wolves the way we personally wanted to. Eventually creating different kinds of dogs. Actually most dogs erupted in the last one hundred fifty years. Chihuahua's were not part of God's original creation simply going far into the past. If we go even farther back wolves wouldn't have existed and Micadae would have. Go even farther back and you continue.

Now tell me your answer to this. What happened? Did dinosaurs live with man like some Christian's say which is laughable since we would likely be extinct from them hunting us or were there certain time periods of different animals and God simply got bored of his play things and destroyed all of them and made something new until he got bored again.

I don't have the exact age of the Earth but from numerous studies which I will provide here we can get in a pretty close range and its much better than saying the Jesus book told you it was simply six thousand years old.

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/CHEMWEEK/PDF..._Clock.pdf

http://biologos.org/questions/ages-of-th...d-universe
(Ah dangit, forgot to add this too which reveals even more ways we date it.)

A couple methods but they simply did not use one but multiple different types to accurately find a window for the age of planet. I understand you think this evil science with some made up agenda for some reason which is made up of hundreds of different people on different continents with different views, ideologies, and thoughts who have unanimously believe this is accurate with numerous studies now agreeing with it.

I love your argument that no one was there to witness it! No one lived when Jesus was around so he had to be false by your logic! We don't have anyone who lived two hundred years ago so all those events have to be made up by the evil people who study the past and try to find out the truths and facts about our history. It is an abomination to think we should search for knowledge of our past.

I am being sarcastic. You weren't alive when Jesus existed so Jesus didn't exist. Wait, you say there is a book? That provides numerous fallacies, horrors, impossibilities, and contradictions say he exists? Well then we should obviously believe that.

We search for evidence from multiple sources. Not just one and not as bias as you are. Creationists shouldn't even be a part of this debate since they are so ridiculously wrong with assertions simply to prove their belief rather than prove a truth. Evolutionists are not the one studying the age of the Earth that is the Geologists job. You are already mistaking those who simply study the earth and its age as evolutionists which some may not be although I would agree most would definitely believe the earth is billions of years old. If they are creationists they are already defining their bias. They want to believe the world is young they don't want to know how old the world actually is.

Evolution actually succeeds if you weren't so blind to the information. When Darwin was alive you could have said that but now we have multiple information from DNA, to fossils to observing drastic changes in subspecies on island environments. It is demonstrable with our current change in dogs, Russia's current experiment with foxes and the domestication of farm animals. Even more artificial selection with vegetation.

Its everywhere and you simply proved your bias. Atheism and Evolution aren't tied. I know of Christians who believe in Evolution so you are wrong in that assertion. If you think its empty to believe the truth than don't believe in gravity, get rid of your electronics if science is so evil. Why drive cars if science is so wrong? Believe the world is flat like some people still do. If you detest knowledge so much all you will be is an embarrassment to future generations. When they have more knowledge than us and they look back to our days they will wonder why people believed the world was six thousand years old. Why people were so strident on denying science when it simply wanted to learn about the world with evidence backing it. Why people like you think its empty when it shows your lack of knowledge.

Its fine if you want to believe what you want to believe. I just want to let you know that your belief is incorrect but you can keep believing that if you want. You just won't add anything to the discussion of things like Evolution or Natural Selection even. All you add is ignorance and again that is fine. Just know that your idea will go extinct like the numerous ones humans have had.

You should also not think evolution is against God. I have plenty of intelligent Christians friends who believe it to be true and see it more beautiful than simply appearing out of nowhere.

Wouldn't you agree it would be a much more beautiful existence if God carefully crafted the world to grow and planned things rather than simply bursting everything out and just kinda watching to see what happens. Of course either way both involve numerous genocides of species but I can see what they say.

What you say though is nothing new and only a losing argument in this supposed debate.

This is how evolution works.





Joking aside here is one by Bill Nye.









I want your answers to my questions because its very important to this discussion if your answers are I do not know go and study and not only on Answers in Genesis but scientific papers and documents on the evidence we observe. If you truly don't want the truth all that much then I suggest Little Red Riding Hood and the three little pigs. Great books.

Last note is that I like making jokes and if you wish to ridicule me go ahead but the serious information I have presented and questions I have asked I hope you answer. If not, I understand but I ridicule points which hold no weight. I do not respect them but if its truly a question of curiosity I have no problem with it.

I like to joke a lot but don't take it personally its those same ideas I have heard countless times that I have an issue with.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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25-08-2013, 03:14 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 02:42 PM)theword Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 01:28 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do you consider DNA to be measurable, demonstrable and observable?
DNA does not prove evolution. Creationists can also apply DNA to creation because everyone is unique, just like God made us. Once again, yo have no proof.

Yes it does. Everyone being unique is a part of evolution. I don't know how DNA does not prove evolution since it is a large part of it.

Creationists have also have had this to say:








(Woops forgot to add this in.)

Creationism at its finest.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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25-08-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 02:42 PM)theword Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 01:28 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do you consider DNA to be measurable, demonstrable and observable?
DNA does not prove evolution. Creationists can also apply DNA to creation because everyone is unique, just like God made us. Once again, yo have no proof.
Don't be so quick to jump the gun. I haven't presented any evidence or explainations yet.
I am just seeing if measured observations of DNA are a worthy path of evidence. It seem that it is. So let's progress down this path.
I'd actually be very keen to hear the Creationists explaination regarding the DNA evidence at hand.
I think it would be pretty cool to compare the explainations side by side.
Although each individual has unique DNA (this is often applied in courts, incriminating people based on DNA evidence), there can be significant similarities between two individual's DNA. Parental lineage can be discovered to a high degree of certainty via DNA analysis. A paternity test is often undertaken in court cases to decide whom the father is and if they are obliged to pay child support.
We can tell what gender an individual is from DNA analysis and we can tell what speicies an individual is.
We can tell what specific genes do for an individual, for example there is a gene that work s towards providing the ability for an individual to produce insulin.
We can see common genes in various species that produce the same function e.g. insulin production.
There is a gene in animals that allows animals to produce vitimin C, an essential for various animals to survive. Humans have this gene however it is broken, it doesn't work, thus we need to ingest our Vitiman C from food sources.
Does Creationism explain why all humans have this broken gene?
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25-08-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 03:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 02:42 PM)theword Wrote:  DNA does not prove evolution. Creationists can also apply DNA to creation because everyone is unique, just like God made us. Once again, yo have no proof.
Don't be so quick to jump the gun. I haven't presented any evidence or explainations yet.
I am just seeing if measured observations of DNA are a worthy path of evidence. It seem that it is. So let's progress down this path.
I'd actually be very keen to hear the Creationists explaination regarding the DNA evidence at hand.
I think it would be pretty cool to compare the explainations side by side.
Although each individual has unique DNA (this is often applied in courts, incriminating people based on DNA evidence), there can be significant similarities between two individual's DNA. Parental lineage can be discovered to a high degree of certainty via DNA analysis. A paternity test is often undertaken in court cases to decide whom the father is and if they are obliged to pay child support.
We can tell what gender an individual is from DNA analysis and we can tell what speicies an individual is.
We can tell what specific genes do for an individual, for example there is a gene that work s towards providing the ability for an individual to produce insulin.
We can see common genes in various species that produce the same function e.g. insulin production.
There is a gene in animals that allows animals to produce vitimin C, an essential for various animals to survive. Humans have this gene however it is broken, it doesn't work, thus we need to ingest our Vitiman C from food sources.
Does Creationism explain why all humans have this broken gene?
Yes, because humans are different than animals.
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25-08-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
Shiruba, you wrote way too much for me to read. I really dont feel like wasting my time going through all of that.
Here is natural selection: mommy mouse gives birth to 5 brown mice and 5 white mice. The owls can see the white mice better, so they eat the white mice.... pretty soon, we only have (or at least the great majority) brown mice- in that area. White mice may survive perfectly other places.
We have many varieties of chickens, cows, dogs, ect.... But the fact is, they all give birth to other chickens, cows, and dogs. This variety is natural selection.
It's hard to give a definition for evolution- since evolution does not exist. A cow has never turned into a chicken and never will.
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25-08-2013, 04:05 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 03:57 PM)theword Wrote:  Does Creationism explain why all humans have this broken gene?
Yes, because humans are different than animals.
[/quote]
That's not an explanation and it is not scientifically accurate.
Humans are a specific species of animal.
What is the Creationist explanation as to why humans have the gene for creating Vitiman C but why is it broken in the same way within all humans?
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25-08-2013, 04:12 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 03:57 PM)theword Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 03:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Don't be so quick to jump the gun. I haven't presented any evidence or explainations yet.
I am just seeing if measured observations of DNA are a worthy path of evidence. It seem that it is. So let's progress down this path.
I'd actually be very keen to hear the Creationists explaination regarding the DNA evidence at hand.
I think it would be pretty cool to compare the explainations side by side.
Although each individual has unique DNA (this is often applied in courts, incriminating people based on DNA evidence), there can be significant similarities between two individual's DNA. Parental lineage can be discovered to a high degree of certainty via DNA analysis. A paternity test is often undertaken in court cases to decide whom the father is and if they are obliged to pay child support.
We can tell what gender an individual is from DNA analysis and we can tell what speicies an individual is.
We can tell what specific genes do for an individual, for example there is a gene that work s towards providing the ability for an individual to produce insulin.
We can see common genes in various species that produce the same function e.g. insulin production.
There is a gene in animals that allows animals to produce vitimin C, an essential for various animals to survive. Humans have this gene however it is broken, it doesn't work, thus we need to ingest our Vitiman C from food sources.
Does Creationism explain why all humans have this broken gene?
Yes, because humans are different than animals.

Many species, such as teleost fishes, anthropoid primates, guinea pigs, as well as some bat and Passeriformes bird species, have lost the capacity to synthesize vitamin C.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-08-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 04:03 PM)theword Wrote:  Shiruba, you wrote way too much for me to read. I really dont feel like wasting my time going through all of that.
Here is natural selection: mommy mouse gives birth to 5 brown mice and 5 white mice. The owls can see the white mice better, so they eat the white mice.... pretty soon, we only have (or at least the great majority) brown mice- in that area. White mice may survive perfectly other places.
We have many varieties of chickens, cows, dogs, ect.... But the fact is, they all give birth to other chickens, cows, and dogs. This variety is natural selection.
It's hard to give a definition for evolution- since evolution does not exist. A cow has never turned into a chicken and never will.

You've tipped you hand - you are unwilling to look at the evidence.

You are willfully ignorant and I pity you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-08-2013, 05:37 PM
RE: The Big Think Creationism debate
(25-08-2013 04:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(25-08-2013 03:57 PM)theword Wrote:  Does Creationism explain why all humans have this broken gene?
Yes, because humans are different than animals.
That's not an explanation and it is not scientifically accurate.
Humans are a specific species of animal.
What is the Creationist explanation as to why humans have the gene for creating Vitiman C but why is it broken in the same way within all humans?
[/quote]
Because humans are a unique species made by God. Did I rephrase this good enough for you.? Secondly, you are trying to prove evolution by giving examples of living things that are already here. You have no scientific explanation of how they got here.
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