The Blasphemy Thread
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16-01-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
"God is dead. No one cares. If there's a hell, I'll see you there." Kiss

Love this song. It's fuckin hot.




"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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16-01-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(15-01-2015 05:59 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 02:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would argue that concepts of atonement and God and divine judgment and mercy are known and discussed worldwide.
Just because the concepts are known worldwide, that doesn't prove any god. I would argue that many of the supposed believers are believers in name only, and atone and forgive because they are human, not because of gods.


(15-01-2015 02:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I hear what you're saying, by the way, regarding the circular nature of belief. Can we call it predisposition or attitude instead? Does that help? I know I feel deeply that people who reject Christ after learning the real gospel must be predisposed to be selfish and stubborn, prideful and etc. Maybe some of you will repent, maybe others won't.
We can call it that if it matters. But see, again, this is a common misconception about atheists. That somehow we know there are gods and that we deny. Why deny that which we know? I don't deny rain, wind, oxygen exchange in hemoglobin, the exchange of particles to create lightning, and so on. But we could argue that theists are too stubborn to stop believing in things that many of their acquaintances agree don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea that you love someone enough to tell them they're going to burn in hell forever. Or the idea that a finite lifetime can warrant an infinite punishment. If someone stole a paperclip, would you sentence them to 30 years hard labor and bare minimum amount of nutrients?

I'm not saying theists are stubborn, but that's a flip side of the coin. You can't say atheists are too stubborn and selfish to see the "truth," but that theists aren't in it for a feeling of superiority and the ability to judge and condemn others.

(15-01-2015 02:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  As a matter of fact, like any good evangelist would, I would say you are in denial as an atheist at some level, meaning you ALREADY believe something (something true) about God.
Again, common misconception about atheists. Pretty much the above covers both. Theists just can't seem to grasp that we don't believe as they do. Instead, they call atheism a religion and insist that we do in fact believe in gods. My brother has a coworker that says the same thing. We don't believe because we don't see it. We don't turn our backs on things we think are true. But if you say I'm denying the Christian god, why do you insist on turning your back on Brahma? It's an older religion with a lot more followers, but you still just can't see it. (I'm not saying you should, but that's the same logic.)

(15-01-2015 02:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Before you fly off the handle at me, and I hope you won't, some non-Christians, not just atheists, believe God is judgmental, some that God is loving, some atheists are actually agnostic--some are apatheist, I know, whatever.
Nah, I'm not angry. I just don't know if you're seeing my points without basing them completely on Christianity. However, many (including Christians) can say God is judgmental. For instance, I constantly hear "I won't judge, because only God does that." Then the constant idea that God is judging me, gays, pagans, etc. To say a divine being is going to punish me for not believing is judging. It's like saying a civil court judge isn't judging me.

(15-01-2015 02:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't want to make you a guinea pig or demean you in ANY fashion...
If I felt you were demeaning me, I wouldn't have answered. Smile

(15-01-2015 02:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...but may I please use you for an experiment right now? I'm going to write:

C'mon, you know in your heart of hearts, deep down in that secret part of you, in your mind, that God is real and wants to link to you for relationship and salvation.

Now, you may put me on ignore (I hope you won't). You may respond "Oh, HELL no. I don't believe even a tiny, little amount that there could possibly be a god, there's no evidence--plus if God does exist I want to run my own life and continue to do X which you Christians say is a big sin" or etc. but I believe via my experiment you just had a secret, sacred moment with me--and I say thank you. (You can send me that news via PM and I won't pass it on at this forum, by the way.)
Here's my conundrum: I didn't feel anything at all. And I tried reading it to myself and aloud. My concern is that you're going to immediately say I'm lying to you or myself and that I did. (I hope you don't.) I can assure you that I didn't feel anything. Again, to say I just want to sin is an insult in itself. That is another claim I hear many times, that we atheists "know" and that we're so immoral and evil that we're looking for an excuse to do bad things. That's the only part I take as an insult. Not only does it call me immoral and inherently a bad person, it also calls me a liar.

I won't say you did that on purpose, so I'm not going to think bad of you for it. For you, sin is a very serious thing. I would never, for instance, ask you to piss on a church altar or to burn a cross. Why? Because I know that wouldn't be good for you.

If you do believe we had a moment, then I won't take that away from you. If I had had an experience, I would've said so. But don't feel bad. I've even read over my own old religious writings in which I professed the obvious need and want for God. Did I feel anything? Nope. Not a thing. That was just the old me trying to create new connections that just weren't there.

I didn't go overboard when I had my vision. Same reason. On a whim, I learned how to read runes (I have Viking blood). I'm always right when I do a rune reading. Do I believe I have special abilities? Nope. Not a bit. I can do cold readings so well that I hit more than John Edward at times. Do I think I'm a medium? Nope.

My point is, for you, God/Ain Sof makes sense. I won't take that away from you. Whether you want or need a deity, that's for you to decide. But please don't say that we as atheists somehow know there are gods and that we're denying them. That would do anything except seal our fate. If we truly believed that we face an eternal torture or permanent death (one church I was in believed Hell was not a place, but when you just die for the last time permanently after Jesus comes back), then why would we do that? That's like saying if you touch my book, I'm going to pour kerosene onto your hand and light it on fire and stomp on it. But then you'd say, I don't believe you exist, so I'm touching your book.

Do I know for sure any gods exist? No.
Do I believe there is evidence for them? No.
Do I think there ever will be evidence for them? I don't know.
Will I follow any god(s) or religion just in case? No.

I don't feel upset or slighted if you didn't feel anything. If you take enough punches to your body you get tougher as a boxer, even if your arms are too short to box with God.

The problem is that you, if I take all your post as true, could only be on this forum for several reasons:

1. There is no God. You are here to slough off all the trauma you've experienced from having the world foist this false belief upon your shoulders.

2. You are a teacher and educator, here to help others with their toxic beliefs about God.

3. You are in denial of the true God and Savior Jesus Christ, exhibited by mocking theists and etc.

I've been on these forums a while and have noticed that in this subforum over 95% of the posts are anti-Christian, not anti-Islam, Judaism, etc. I've noticed that not many people make attempts to teach others. A few do and I respect their strong minds and mindsets, and I perceive their rationalist minds and leanings that are much like my own.

I've not seen many people dip a toe in because they were sloughing off and then leave as soon as they're done. I've seen people join and express their gratitude at sloughing off the G_d delusion and at having fellowship with other atheists, and then proceed to use more four-letter words than not and for months on end. Frankly, it's hard to find more pissed-off people at a Star Wars convention where George Lucas fails to show but Jar-Jar Binks becomes the headliner.

Miss-a-thinkin-you-not-be-in-denial. Not the active stages. I think you may have
"seared your conscience as with a hot iron" as the Bible puts it. I hope not. I would grieve much to hear that was so.

Do you think there is a small possibility that God exists? A teensy, tiny chance that you and I do not know everything about this near-infinite expanse we call the universe and that God might be out there (or in here) somewhere? A little, bitty chance?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-01-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(16-01-2015 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 05:59 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Just because the concepts are known worldwide, that doesn't prove any god. I would argue that many of the supposed believers are believers in name only, and atone and forgive because they are human, not because of gods.


We can call it that if it matters. But see, again, this is a common misconception about atheists. That somehow we know there are gods and that we deny. Why deny that which we know? I don't deny rain, wind, oxygen exchange in hemoglobin, the exchange of particles to create lightning, and so on. But we could argue that theists are too stubborn to stop believing in things that many of their acquaintances agree don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea that you love someone enough to tell them they're going to burn in hell forever. Or the idea that a finite lifetime can warrant an infinite punishment. If someone stole a paperclip, would you sentence them to 30 years hard labor and bare minimum amount of nutrients?

I'm not saying theists are stubborn, but that's a flip side of the coin. You can't say atheists are too stubborn and selfish to see the "truth," but that theists aren't in it for a feeling of superiority and the ability to judge and condemn others.

Again, common misconception about atheists. Pretty much the above covers both. Theists just can't seem to grasp that we don't believe as they do. Instead, they call atheism a religion and insist that we do in fact believe in gods. My brother has a coworker that says the same thing. We don't believe because we don't see it. We don't turn our backs on things we think are true. But if you say I'm denying the Christian god, why do you insist on turning your back on Brahma? It's an older religion with a lot more followers, but you still just can't see it. (I'm not saying you should, but that's the same logic.)

Nah, I'm not angry. I just don't know if you're seeing my points without basing them completely on Christianity. However, many (including Christians) can say God is judgmental. For instance, I constantly hear "I won't judge, because only God does that." Then the constant idea that God is judging me, gays, pagans, etc. To say a divine being is going to punish me for not believing is judging. It's like saying a civil court judge isn't judging me.

If I felt you were demeaning me, I wouldn't have answered. Smile

Here's my conundrum: I didn't feel anything at all. And I tried reading it to myself and aloud. My concern is that you're going to immediately say I'm lying to you or myself and that I did. (I hope you don't.) I can assure you that I didn't feel anything. Again, to say I just want to sin is an insult in itself. That is another claim I hear many times, that we atheists "know" and that we're so immoral and evil that we're looking for an excuse to do bad things. That's the only part I take as an insult. Not only does it call me immoral and inherently a bad person, it also calls me a liar.

I won't say you did that on purpose, so I'm not going to think bad of you for it. For you, sin is a very serious thing. I would never, for instance, ask you to piss on a church altar or to burn a cross. Why? Because I know that wouldn't be good for you.

If you do believe we had a moment, then I won't take that away from you. If I had had an experience, I would've said so. But don't feel bad. I've even read over my own old religious writings in which I professed the obvious need and want for God. Did I feel anything? Nope. Not a thing. That was just the old me trying to create new connections that just weren't there.

I didn't go overboard when I had my vision. Same reason. On a whim, I learned how to read runes (I have Viking blood). I'm always right when I do a rune reading. Do I believe I have special abilities? Nope. Not a bit. I can do cold readings so well that I hit more than John Edward at times. Do I think I'm a medium? Nope.

My point is, for you, God/Ain Sof makes sense. I won't take that away from you. Whether you want or need a deity, that's for you to decide. But please don't say that we as atheists somehow know there are gods and that we're denying them. That would do anything except seal our fate. If we truly believed that we face an eternal torture or permanent death (one church I was in believed Hell was not a place, but when you just die for the last time permanently after Jesus comes back), then why would we do that? That's like saying if you touch my book, I'm going to pour kerosene onto your hand and light it on fire and stomp on it. But then you'd say, I don't believe you exist, so I'm touching your book.

Do I know for sure any gods exist? No.
Do I believe there is evidence for them? No.
Do I think there ever will be evidence for them? I don't know.
Will I follow any god(s) or religion just in case? No.

I don't feel upset or slighted if you didn't feel anything. If you take enough punches to your body you get tougher as a boxer, even if your arms are too short to box with God.

The problem is that you, if I take all your post as true, could only be on this forum for several reasons:

1. There is no God. You are here to slough off all the trauma you've experienced from having the world foist this false belief upon your shoulders.

2. You are a teacher and educator, here to help others with their toxic beliefs about God.

3. You are in denial of the true God and Savior Jesus Christ, exhibited by mocking theists and etc.

I've been on these forums a while and have noticed that in this subforum over 95% of the posts are anti-Christian, not anti-Islam, Judaism, etc. I've noticed that not many people make attempts to teach others. A few do and I respect their strong minds and mindsets, and I perceive their rationalist minds and leanings that are much like my own.

I've not seen many people dip a toe in because they were sloughing off and then leave as soon as they're done. I've seen people join and express their gratitude at sloughing off the G_d delusion and at having fellowship with other atheists, and then proceed to use more four-letter words than not and for months on end. Frankly, it's hard to find more pissed-off people at a Star Wars convention where George Lucas fails to show but Jar-Jar Binks becomes the headliner.

Miss-a-thinkin-you-not-be-in-denial. Not the active stages. I think you may have
"seared your conscience as with a hot iron" as the Bible puts it. I hope not. I would grieve much to hear that was so.

Do you think there is a small possibility that God exists? A teensy, tiny chance that you and I do not know everything about this near-infinite expanse we call the universe and that God might be out there (or in here) somewhere? A little, bitty chance?

You groveling and pathetic, self righteous, insane liar - go pick a corner and rot already.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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16-01-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(16-01-2015 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The problem is that you, if I take all your post as true, could only be on this forum for several reasons:

1. There is no God. You are here to slough off all the trauma you've experienced from having the world foist this false belief upon your shoulders.

2. You are a teacher and educator, here to help others with their toxic beliefs about God.

3. You are in denial of the true God and Savior Jesus Christ, exhibited by mocking theists and etc.

4. You are tired of hearing all the Jebus-crap on the news and from people around you and want to interact with others who also see no reason to believe in order to preserve your sanity.

Quote:I've been on these forums a while and have noticed that in this subforum over 95% of the posts are anti-Christian, not anti-Islam, Judaism, etc.

Many of the people here are American and Christianity is a much bigger problem than Islam here. Islam is currently a bigger threat overall (in my opinion anyway) but it is less immediate in many ways. Islam has certainly gotten a bigger share of bashing recently. Jews generally don't proselytize and tend to keep their beliefs to themselves. I don't hear anything about a war on Chanukah when people say Merry Christmas and I don't see Jews spending millions to prevent same-sex marriage, abortion, and other issues.

Christians may get the majority of the bashing here but they deserve every bit they get. When they keep their unfounded beliefs out of school and government I'll be happy to live and let live. Islam may deserve more vitriol than it gets here but there's only so much time in the day.

Quote:Do you think there is a small possibility that God exists? A teensy, tiny chance that you and I do not know everything about this near-infinite expanse we call the universe and that God might be out there (or in here) somewhere? A little, bitty chance?

Do you understand that somebody can be an agnostic atheist? Do you understand that most atheists tend to hold that position (at least in my experience)? There may be something that actually exists that would meet a reasonable definition of a god. If you have evidence of anything like that please present it. The fictional scribblings that Christians rely on are not evidence of anything real any more than the Odyssey is evidence for Zeus.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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16-01-2015, 09:45 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(16-01-2015 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't feel upset or slighted if you didn't feel anything. If you take enough punches to your body you get tougher as a boxer, even if your arms are too short to box with God.

Not sure if I follow what you're saying. Smile

Quote:The problem is that you, if I take all your post as true, could only be on this forum for several reasons:
Well, some of it was hypothetical, so I'm not so sure you can. But... None of the reasons you stated. I'm on this forum because I have been on another similar forums and this one has a wider variety of people.

It's a weird habit that I never do things that can't learn from. I don't understand it, to be honest. I'm learning about others' opinions and viewpoints, so I'm staying for now. I don't plan on leaving any time soon.

People actually want to hear about why we're atheists and offer support. Atheists rarely get that.

Quote:2. You are a teacher and educator, here to help others with their toxic beliefs about God.
Former teacher. I don't think I can help others with any beliefs for or against gods. I'm not going to try to convince you or anyone to change their minds.

Quote:3. You are in denial of the true God and Savior Jesus Christ, exhibited by mocking theists and etc.
I've mocked EGor, because he's nutty. And I don't take kindly to being insulted (by him). I often use humor in an attempt to calm others. It's an old investigation trick. It helps people gather their thoughts and forms a rapport to help understand each other. If that's been taken as mocking you, then it's just a misunderstanding that neither of us need apologize for.

Quote:I've been on these forums a while and have noticed that in this subforum over 95% of the posts are anti-Christian, not anti-Islam, Judaism, etc...
Only because the majority of the users here come from Judeo-Christian areas. Most anglophones live in those areas. I'm certain a forum based in India would be 95% anti-Hindu.

Quote:... and then proceed to use more four-letter words than not and for months on end.
Can't speak for others. My father was Bronx Irish, so every other word was a 4-letter word. But to be fair, I also curse in French because of my mother's side. Smile

Quote:Miss-a-thinkin-you-not-be-in-denial. Not the active stages. I think you may have
"seared your conscience as with a hot iron" as the Bible puts it. I hope not. I would grieve much to hear that was so.
I'm not sure what you're shooting for here. (Not you, I'm just not getting it.) What do you mean by "active stage"? I do in fact deny all gods. I haven't seen evidence of any gods, not just YHWH. I tried to find it for a while. I didn't wake up one day and decide. Smile

Quote:Do you think there is a small possibility that God exists? A teensy, tiny chance that you and I do not know everything about this near-infinite expanse we call the universe...
I'm 100% certain you and I don't know everything. I don't think humanity knows 5% of what's out there. No matter if we're the product of a Young Earth or we evolved over millions of years, we're way too young to know that much. And we won't get halfway through the universe in our lifetime.

Quote:and that God might be out there (or in here) somewhere? A little, bitty chance?
To be honest, before I realized I was atheist, my view was that if there are gods, then we missed the mark. I had this insane idea of going through tomes to find a tiny piece of what might be real. I won't go onto details because it's boring as crap.

If there are gods, then no holy book or followers have gotten it right yet.

Just my two cents. Smile
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16-01-2015, 10:04 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(16-01-2015 08:06 AM)Nurse Wrote:  "God is dead. No one cares. If there's a hell, I'll see you there." Kiss

Love this song. It's fuckin hot.




I'll see your 9" nail and raise you a super fly.




#sigh
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16-01-2015, 10:19 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2015 10:41 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(16-01-2015 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The problem is that you, if I take all your post as true, could only be on this forum for several reasons:

1. There is no God. You are here to slough off all the trauma you've experienced from having the world foist this false belief upon your shoulders.

2. You are a teacher and educator, here to help others with their toxic beliefs about God.

3. You are in denial of the true God and Savior Jesus Christ, exhibited by mocking theists and etc.

4. I AM the one true God and Savior and so are you, silly billy. Tongue

#sigh
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20-01-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
All,

It's unfortunate for the need to repeat things here, but the same questions seem to crop up.

Yes, I know what an agnostic atheist is. No, I cannot go beyond the bounds of what is available to you direct from God to give you smoking-gun evidence. Jesus said He could rise from the dead visibly but that doesn't force the witness of the event to trust Him.

By "conscience seared" I understand the scriptures are referring to someone who has turned aside from God so often that when He does "call" they don't hear. It's too late for such a person to repent. I don't denigrate God for this, however, as people are given many opportunities to change their minds about Christ. For example, it almost seems like the more hardened you are to God the more opportunities--more vocal atheists hear from born again Christians more often, etc.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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20-01-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(20-01-2015 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

It's unfortunate for the need to repeat things here, but the same questions seem to crop up.

Yes, I know what an agnostic atheist is. No, I cannot go beyond the bounds of what is available to you direct from God to give you smoking-gun evidence. Jesus said He could rise from the dead visibly but that doesn't force the witness of the event to trust Him.

By "conscience seared" I understand the scriptures are referring to someone who has turned aside from God so often that when He does "call" they don't hear. It's too late for such a person to repent. I don't denigrate God for this, however, as people are given many opportunities to change their minds about Christ. For example, it almost seems like the more hardened you are to God the more opportunities--more vocal atheists hear from born again Christians more often, etc.

I blame it on not going to the altar with the sixteenth round of "Just as I Am." Damn heathens. They just extinguished the fire...that's supposed to be eternal....




"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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20-01-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: The Blasphemy Thread
(20-01-2015 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

It's unfortunate for the need to repeat things here, but the same questions seem to crop up.

Yes, I know what an agnostic atheist is. No, I cannot go beyond the bounds of what is available to you direct from God to give you smoking-gun evidence. Jesus said He could rise from the dead visibly but that doesn't force the witness of the event to trust Him.

By "conscience seared" I understand the scriptures are referring to someone who has turned aside from God so often that when He does "call" they don't hear. It's too late for such a person to repent. I don't denigrate God for this, however, as people are given many opportunities to change their minds about Christ. For example, it almost seems like the more hardened you are to God the more opportunities--more vocal atheists hear from born again Christians more often, etc.

Yes it is quite unfortunate to repeat things here but.....

You decided to take a 2000 year old book of mythological stories as true and worthy of quoting. You feel special, you feel important, you feel the need to make others follow your tactics for your emotional needs. You are gullible and rely on wishful thinking to give your life purpose. Keep your magic and fantasy to yourself as it is in no way worthy of teaching to others, and worse to children, as a means to explain this great world and universe around us.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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