The Book of Joshua
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23-07-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:02 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  You wrote that in a very ambiguously disturbing way...
Haha. I see that now. I'm not a fan of the Holocaust by any means. I only use it in the sense that "you believe the Jews did it. Don't get pissy when someone does it to them"
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23-07-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)shiranl Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 09:55 AM)Hitched_Gibson Wrote:  Thanks. I knew I was missing something. Now that we've covered day one of atheism 101, we can move on.

The point I was making was that those who are upset about the Holocaust(probably all Americans who are ~90% christian) and believe the bible shouldn't be too upset about it.

Just because someone is new to the forum doesn't mean they're new to thinking. Understood?

Really? because I didn't see that point. The point I sow was justifying the Holocaust by a story about a genocide that was done by the Jews a couple thousands of years before the Holocaust.

Maybe you should make your points clearer.

I saw it as asking why One is the most horrible thing ever done and the other is defended as a just and moral action. Granted the phrasing the OP used was not optimal (for future reference try not to appear to tacitly approve of the holocaust) but it is a valid question. Why was Hitler genocide bad and Joshua's good?

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23-07-2013, 10:36 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:24 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Really? because I didn't see that point. The point I sow was justifying the Holocaust by a story about a genocide that was done by the Jews a couple thousands of years before the Holocaust.

Maybe you should make your points clearer.

I saw it as asking why One is the most horrible thing ever done and the other is defended as a just and moral action. Granted the phrasing the OP used was not optimal (for future reference try not to appear to tacitly approve of the holocaust) but it is a valid question. Why was Hitler genocide bad and Joshua's good?

It wasn't. Neither good nor real.
And lets be honest- this isn't the only dissonance religious people have in their own faith.
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23-07-2013, 10:43 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:24 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Why was Hitler genocide bad and Joshua's good?

Because if you start with the premise that God doesn't command people to do evil, then Joshua's genocide can't be evil. It's often argued in terms of moral relativity (killing unbelievers was fine before the "new covenant" that was made when Jesus died) or in terms of special pleading (the land of Israel was promised to the Israelites and they could take it by any means necessary) or by blaming the victim (the inhabitants of Canaan could have fled and avoided being killed by the Israelites), but after you've already accepted the premise that God's commands must be good then no argument that doesn't have that premise will even make sense to you. It's irrational but explainable.

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23-07-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:36 AM)shiranl Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 10:24 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I saw it as asking why One is the most horrible thing ever done and the other is defended as a just and moral action. Granted the phrasing the OP used was not optimal (for future reference try not to appear to tacitly approve of the holocaust) but it is a valid question. Why was Hitler genocide bad and Joshua's good?

It wasn't. Neither good nor real.
And lets be honest- this isn't the only dissonance religious people have in their own faith.

No, it's not but biblical atrocities are usually glazed over in the modern church (well christian anyway not sure how the Rabbi's present them) and this is a good starting point for someone to begin questioning the existence of God ie: If God is good why would he do all these terrible things.

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23-07-2013, 10:55 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)shiranl Wrote:  [quote='Hitched_Gibson' pid='346454' dateline='1374594920']

Maybe you should make your points clearer.

Don't get upset with me when you take something the wrong way. The point was to make a statement, but never to condone the Holocaust. Someone else caught the ambiguity, you didn't. I don't see how you getting upset is my fault.
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23-07-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 10:50 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 10:36 AM)shiranl Wrote:  It wasn't. Neither good nor real.
And lets be honest- this isn't the only dissonance religious people have in their own faith.

No, it's not but biblical atrocities are usually glazed over in the modern church (well christian anyway not sure how the Rabbi's present them) and this is a good starting point for someone to begin questioning the existence of God ie: If God is good why would he do all these terrible things.

Actually, this will sound funny- but orthodox Jews do not read and study the bible, only the Talmud, because in the bible there are often sexual descriptions, and that will turn them horny- which isn't allowed!
The only story that really is glazed over is the exodus, because it was when god gave the Jews the Torah and made them his "chosen people".

Epicurus's God paradox. I think one of the main reasons someone becomes an atheist.
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23-07-2013, 11:08 AM
RE: The Book of Joshua
For the record, I got the intended meaning from the initial post without need for clarification. Just sayin.

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23-07-2013, 08:22 PM
The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 11:01 AM)shiranl Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 10:50 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  No, it's not but biblical atrocities are usually glazed over in the modern church (well christian anyway not sure how the Rabbi's present them) and this is a good starting point for someone to begin questioning the existence of God ie: If God is good why would he do all these terrible things.

Actually, this will sound funny- but orthodox Jews do not read and study the bible, only the Talmud, because in the bible there are often sexual descriptions, and that will turn them horny- which isn't allowed!
The only story that really is glazed over is the exodus, because it was when god gave the Jews the Torah and made them his "chosen people".

Epicurus's God paradox. I think one of the main reasons someone becomes an atheist.

When I was 13-15ish, I'd read the horny parts for...well...the horny parts. Shy

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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23-07-2013, 09:02 PM
RE: The Book of Joshua
(23-07-2013 08:22 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 11:01 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Actually, this will sound funny- but orthodox Jews do not read and study the bible, only the Talmud, because in the bible there are often sexual descriptions, and that will turn them horny- which isn't allowed!
The only story that really is glazed over is the exodus, because it was when god gave the Jews the Torah and made them his "chosen people".

Epicurus's God paradox. I think one of the main reasons someone becomes an atheist.

When I was 13-15ish, I'd read the horny parts for...well...the horny parts. Shy

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Hope you never change.

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