The Cambrian Explosion
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05-07-2017, 05:14 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 05:21 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 04:22 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Scientists do not know how the Cambrian Explosion played out and that worries me, yet scientists not knowing how the big bang started doesn't worry me. That's weird and I can't explain it.

@ Oaktree500 - If anything it's about me wanting to believe the Cambrian Explosion can be sufficiently explained by science. I've been feeling really positive these last six weeks but right now I feel pretty low.

@ Morondog - Thanks for the reply

@ Gawdzilla - I might be grasping at straws but it's not how you think. I am trying to cling to the idea that the Cambrian Explosion is not a supernatural initiated event.

The Cambrian explosion occurred over a period of 20 million years, how is this similar to the creation myth?

The bible asserts that birds were created in the same period as life in the oceans, how is this similar to the scientific evidence?

Birds were a branch-off from dinosaur ancestors, much later:

[Image: 1-image2dinosaursizeevolution.jpg]

There's another blatant error made in Genesis- whales. Whales evolved from Pakicetus, an amphibious land animal!

[Image: 11419321426_351855d846.jpg]

Further down in the Genesis myth (1:30) it implies that every animal ate plants before the fall of man. Do you fully understand how incredibly wrong that is?

There is no way a reading of Genesis in the light of science can recover from being anything but a primitive myth created by an ignorant people, the ignorance of Genesis jumps out at you, the only way it remains credible is through childhood indoctrination. Once you examine it outside the Christian envelope, it completely falls apart.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-07-2017, 05:15 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 01:55 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I read about the three main triggers but none of them are convincing and/or believed with any real conviction by the scientific community. :/

You seem to be looking for a single smoking gun but it is more likely to be a confluence of factors. Science is investigating possibilities and searching for additional ones and if we don't fully understand it that doesn't mean that "god did it" is the answer "god" is used to explain literally everything which means it actually explains nothing.

It is OK not to know. It isn't OK to pretend to know.

Quote:Looking at the above verse I'm sat thinking, what if the creation story in the Bible isn't supposed to be read like a science paper, but is just a way to get across to us the knowledge that God created life?

Then this god is a really, really bad communicator and doesn't understand his creation at all. If he made people with the ability to investigate and reason and reach rational conclusions and then decided to just tell them "don't worry your pretty little heads about this" he's an incompetent asshole.

Which is more likely: (a) an actual god is hiding the details from us or (b) you are creatively interpreting primitive mythology to match science? If you don't start with the assumption that the bible contains divinely-inspired truths you'll find you can't get to that as a conclusion.

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05-07-2017, 05:26 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 04:35 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello SeaJay! Big Grin

Thumbsup

I must admit to being a tad lost as to your concerns.

From my layman's knowledge there have been multiple extinctions....followed by the survivng life branching out to fill the ecological niches/environments left empty. Consider

I'm pretty sure, and those more knowledgeable than myself can hopefully name it/put my point right, that the ectinction event that took out the Triolobites was pretty hefty as well. Taking out something like 90% odd of EVERYTHING.

Basically, from failing memory, had things been even a little more severe then this ball of rock would have been wiped clean of life.

Consider

Cheers

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Hi Peebothuhul

I'm not sure the Cambrian Explosion is a mass extinction event. I don't know though, I could be wrong. I think it's a case of a lot of creatures (for want of a scientific term) suddenly appeared "as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history" (as Dawkins put it in the Blind Watchmaker, pg 229)

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05-07-2017, 05:27 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 04:40 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  IF the Cambrian "Explosion" had been "guided by the hand of God" we'd still have to understand why 500,000,000+ years went by before humans appeared on the scene, and why it took a dino-killer to allow mammals a place in the sun.

Imaginary friends are lousy time managers?
Good point and I've mulled over this too.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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05-07-2017, 05:31 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 05:26 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Hi Peebothuhul

I'm not sure the Cambrian Explosion is a mass extinction event. I don't know though, I could be wrong. I think it's a case of a lot of creatures (for want of a scientific term) suddenly appeared "as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history" (as Dawkins put it in the Blind Watchmaker, pg 229)

No, no, sorry. The cambrian 'Explosion' is not an extinction event... it follows from/after said event.

Hence, there have been other such 'eplosions.... just, perhaps, that the radiation of new species was not as large/volumous.

Thumbsup

So... why are you having problems with this one radiation of new species and not other radiation periods of new species?

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05-07-2017, 05:32 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 05:26 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I'm not sure the Cambrian Explosion is a mass extinction event. I don't know though, I could be wrong. I think it's a case of a lot of creatures (for want of a scientific term) suddenly appeared "as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history" (as Dawkins put it in the Blind Watchmaker, pg 229)

Laugh out load That's what's got you steamed? Let me suggest an alternative to the God theory. Aliens did it. It's got exactly as much evidence to suggest it.

The assumption of most people though, will be that there's a more mundane reason than something as exotic as an extra-terrestrial intelligence.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-07-2017, 05:32 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 05:26 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  "as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history"

Is that , ^ above ^, What is putting you off here? "As though just appeared". It took 20-25 million years, they didn't just POOF into existence. Even then some questions are being raised to if it even actually occurred, as some of these supposed "quick" changes can be seen in fossils dating BEFORE the explosion event was the case.

Check the wiki page on the details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion

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05-07-2017, 05:41 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 06:00 AM by SeaJay.)
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 04:22 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  @ Oaktree500 - If anything it's about me wanting to believe the Cambrian Explosion can be sufficiently explained by science. I've been feeling really positive these last six weeks but right now I feel pretty low.

(05-07-2017 04:40 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  You don't have to believe it, it happened.

I'm not really sure why you're getting wrapped up in this so much. We have the evidence to show it definitely was a thing that went down in the annals of history, there just isn't a unified/world recognized understanding of WHY. And even then there are some pretty good ideas around regarding that, although we may never be able to recreate the circumstances surrounding this, so there is a large chance we'll never 100% know, however using the information we have we can postulate accordingly. Very few things are ever simple "this happened so something else happens", it's normally combinations of several very complex things, and thus we have trouble pinpointing the exact moment.
The precise reason for my anxieties is what I've read about it. Basically, and as Dawkins said in the Blind Watchmaker:

"It's as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history" (pg 229).

I've not read the entire book though so obviously I might be taking it out of context. I do know Dawkins doesn't belief in gods so I know I'm missing something.

EDIT: I've also read that it took place over about 5 million years. Isn't that supposed to be insignificant in evolutionary time scales?

(05-07-2017 04:40 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  In this case, sudden increases of oxygen/possible solar radiation/general radiation on the earth are all factors to be looked into, plus the possible evolutionary changes in the organisms at the time as well, I think as already mentioned. We've said it before, but why is genesis your go to? Why not any other religious text or idea of how the world came to be? You don't seem to be ignoring scientific work and saying "well I still think it could be the milk of a goddess' tit that created our solar system".
I hear you. I just get really anxious and, blinkered I guess. I am fully aware that the 'god of the gaps' idea is seriously flawed. But my anxieties get out of control.

(05-07-2017 04:40 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Seriously, just calm the F down, and THINK about what you are saying and why you are saying it. Who gives a fuck what religion says happened? It's all bullshit mate. Science is not something to be believed in or have faith in, it's a process in which we find out answers to questions that mankind as a whole have.
If I could, I would. I'm trying to view it all without emotion.

(05-07-2017 04:40 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  All answers we currently have to stuff like the big bang/evolution all started off much like this issue with the Explosion. All started with various different hypothesis and remained just "an idea" until it was tested and proven to give the same results by multiple scientists from around the world, giving it the Theory status and now being widely accepted as fact. Even then something could pop up and change the way we think we know how these things work, but that is science for you.

What you're saying is: "I have my good book, which was written by people about a god that doesn't and has never existed, which also has 0 basis of anything being true about it, is constantly contradicting itself, full of brutal murder stories which then get justified by saying it was some gods will. All of which is never explained in anyway about who/what it is other than a massive bastard who is just cruel all round....and I'd rather take that over the logical thought process of my fellow human beings".

Garbage mate.

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05-07-2017, 05:52 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 05:14 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 04:22 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Scientists do not know how the Cambrian Explosion played out and that worries me, yet scientists not knowing how the big bang started doesn't worry me. That's weird and I can't explain it.

@ Oaktree500 - If anything it's about me wanting to believe the Cambrian Explosion can be sufficiently explained by science. I've been feeling really positive these last six weeks but right now I feel pretty low.

@ Morondog - Thanks for the reply

@ Gawdzilla - I might be grasping at straws but it's not how you think. I am trying to cling to the idea that the Cambrian Explosion is not a supernatural initiated event.

The Cambrian explosion occurred over a period of 20 million years, how is this similar to the creation myth?

The bible asserts that birds were created in the same period as life in the oceans, how is this similar to the scientific evidence?

Birds were a branch-off from dinosaur ancestors, much later:

[Image: 1-image2dinosaursizeevolution.jpg]

There's another blatant error made in Genesis- whales. Whales evolved from Pakicetus, an amphibious land animal!

[Image: 11419321426_351855d846.jpg]

Further down in the Genesis myth (1:30) it implies that every animal ate plants before the fall of man. Do you fully understand how incredibly wrong that is?

There is no way a reading of Genesis in the light of science can recover from being anything but a primitive myth created by an ignorant people, the ignorance of Genesis jumps out at you, the only way it remains credible is through childhood indoctrination. Once you examine it outside the Christian envelope, it completely falls apart.
Thank you for this Inquisition. Much to ponder

"Further down in the Genesis myth (1:30) it implies that every animal ate plants before the fall of man. Do you fully understand how incredibly wrong that is?"

Far as I know the animals were would have been herbivores, carnivores and omnivores? Is your point that Genesis implies they 'only' ate plants?

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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05-07-2017, 05:56 AM
RE: The Cambrian Explosion
(05-07-2017 05:31 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 05:26 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Hi Peebothuhul

I'm not sure the Cambrian Explosion is a mass extinction event. I don't know though, I could be wrong. I think it's a case of a lot of creatures (for want of a scientific term) suddenly appeared "as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history" (as Dawkins put it in the Blind Watchmaker, pg 229)

No, no, sorry. The cambrian 'Explosion' is not an extinction event... it follows from/after said event.

Hence, there have been other such 'eplosions.... just, perhaps, that the radiation of new species was not as large/volumous.

Thumbsup

So... why are you having problems with this one radiation of new species and not other radiation periods of new species?

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I did not know the CEx came after an extinction event. Do we know this for sure?

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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