The Case For Legalizing Steroids
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-09-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(10-09-2013 09:53 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Relevant?

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/at...e_gladwell

Nice - thanks for posting this :-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(10-09-2013 12:17 PM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  I finally got tested after hearing Rich Lyons trumpet his good results with testosterone therapy on the LAF podcast. Turns out I'm a poster boy for "Low T" - way down the scale from where I should be at my age (46). So much for the over-the-counter testosterone boosters I was taking - what a waste of money!

That's how old I was when I was first diagnosed some 5 years ago now. Came in at 214 ng/dl on a 2-σ range of 300-1100.

(10-09-2013 12:17 PM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  After another blood test to rule out any nastiness, my problem appears to be centered in my pituitary gland (per my doctor, the most common reason for Low T).

You got secondary hypogonadism instead of primary where your fellas just curled up in a fetal position and went into hibernation. They can sometimes treat secondary if there's some reason they can identify why the pituitary ain't sending enough luteinizing hormone to signal the Leydig cells to increase production, but really why bother. My fellas are already old so they ain't gonna produce the levels anywhere near what I had in my early 20's no matter how much signal I give 'em. Best to let 'em go dormant and stay outta my way. Big Grin

I'm convinced mine was pharmaceutically induced by me being an overresponder to statins. 40 mg simvastatin brought my total cholesterol under 100 mg/dl but my HDL was like 70 so the doc liked that number. But cholesterol is the precursor to all of the sex hormones, too little cholesterol=too little pregnenolone=too little testosterone. And my diabetes drug metformin is also correlated with reduced T in about a third of men. But it ain't like I'm stop those drugs, so I'll just add the T thankyou very much.

(10-09-2013 12:17 PM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  He put me on testosterone gel, and I did my first dose today. I already feel a difference (although that may be a placebo effect, but I ain't knocking it).

Yeah, it's placebo at this point but like you say so what? Non-placebo effects include consistent morning wood and spontaneous erections. You know, like when you were 20. Usually start showing up after a couple weeks at which point your fellas may start to stop producing on their own and your dose may have to be increased. Don't happen to everyone or even most, though. I know one guy who gets to 850 ng/dl on 1.25g and I only get to 700 on 10g. Some of us just got thick skin.

(10-09-2013 12:17 PM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  Trouble is, this Gel of the Godz is not cheap. I'm working with my local pharmacist to get a discount through a manufacturer's coupon/incentive, so hopefully next month's dose will be easier on my pocketbook...

Yeah, the gels ain't cheap. My dose of 10g/day 1% Androgel would cost about $750 US/month. But I got great insurance so it's only $70 in copays. Compounding pharmacies can make it much cheaper and in higher concentrations but they tend to be hit and miss with many men not absorbing them reliably. Injections are also cheap but depending on the ester they last from a couple of weeks to a couple of months so you get a big spike at first and then drop back down to even lower levels than you started which doesn't mimic the natural daily fluctuations.

(10-09-2013 09:53 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Relevant?

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/at...e_gladwell

Yup, saw this a few days ago. No such thing as a level playing field when it comes to elite athletes. Look at the half-man, half-giraffe Usain Bolt. Yeah, he works his ass off and has the discipline of any other elite sprinter. It's kinda like his job. But his domination, that's is in his genes.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
11-09-2013, 04:11 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(11-09-2013 03:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 09:53 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Relevant?

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/at...e_gladwell

Yup, saw this a few days ago. No such thing as a level playing field when it comes to elite athletes. Look at the half-man, half-giraffe Usain Bolt. Yeah, he works his ass off and has the discipline of any other elite sprinter. It's kinda like his job. But his domination, that's is in his genes.

Yes. Assuming that exactly the same training regimen is available, that's all competition is: a genetic sorting algorithm. High-level athletics are a filter.

It's not really ever been a matter of pure effort, as we like to pretend, culturally. It might theoretically be, if, uneven training opportunity being (more or less) addressed by the athletes of wealthy countries these days, some of those biological imbalances are then 'addressed', one way or another. Or it might become a matter of true randomness...

In any case, we're at an interesting point in our history. We'll have to come to a working definition as to just what competition means to us - let alone what equality and opportunity mean!

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
18-09-2013, 02:09 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(05-08-2013 01:45 AM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  When I was in the Marines back in the mid-80s, some of my peers got into steroids - you can imagine the pressure within the Corps to be buff and studly. Soon the brass began to crack down on users and it became a punishable offense to juice.

For a long time I was against steroids. I knew one Marine on the stuff who got bloated and pimply, and after they became verboten another got kicked out after popping on a piss test. I heard the lurid stories about bitch tits, 'roid rage, and cheaters in sports.

Fast-forward to the present day and a middle-aged body with some nagging injuries, which prompted me to read various books on the subject and watch a documentary or two. At this point, I believe steroids should be legalized, but I'm not sure how that would look. I can't imagine folks using them without medical supervision, especially with the various types and combinations of steroids a person can cycle through depending on the results they are seeking. And of course sports organizations and the military would have to make some regulations and accommodations.

Another aspect that intrigues me is the supplement angle. Despite my skepticism, I take a lot of fitness supplements with the hope that they will help me build muscle, lose fat, and enable me to keep up with the younger chaps in my martial arts classes. But frankly, I can't help but feel that a testosterone prescription from my doctor would do more for me in that department than all the pills, powders, and potions at GNC - especially since supplements are mostly unregulated (but that's another discussion).

In the end, I'm for anything that will improve my quality of life, especially as I get older and have less of it to waste. I'm glad marihuana is now legal in my state, and I want it to be taxed, regulated for quality control, and also be able to get my doctor's input on the best way to take it. It would be cool to have those benefits with steroids as well.

I've been following this thread for a while. As a female steroids and hormones are a delicate matter. Like you, Atheist Pilgrim, I was against all steroids and didn't see the need. I didn't see the need that is until my hormones plummeted so low as to hardly exist. Women's testosterone levels after 45 almost disappear and with it libido and I am now past 50. Fortunately my family doctor prescribed testosterone cream for me and it made a huge difference. I can exercise and recover faster, I'm not exhausted all the time, I have a sex life. I just feel so much better. Lets just say, my husband is pleased and jokes that I'm on "roids".

The strength of testosterone I take is in line with what is considered normal for a female. It's not something a female athlete would take for performance. It's just enough for me to feel human again. I don't know what women did in previous times when their hormones plummeted and testosterone vanished. I guess they just sat around knitting and their husbands went else where.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like dancefortwo's post
21-09-2013, 10:34 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
Reconsidering the War on Steroids

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2013, 09:14 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(03-08-2013 05:48 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The difference being that you are not taking them for a particular advantage over anyone else, or on some egotistical initiative. Your treatment is medically prescribed and/or recommended, is it not? Steroids are legal for medicinal use.

The idea that there is such a thing as a level playing field is naive and predicated on prescientific ideas about human development and maturation. Implicit in your complaint is the unfounded idea that all humans enter the world as functionally identical nuclei shaped entirely by environment. In this prescientific mythos the fastest sprinter is the hardest training sprinter. This prescientific nonsense is perpetuated by corporations that seek to sell consumer items on the back of a heroic narrative.

Taking only the example of free (vs bound) androgens there is a great deal of natural variation within each sex. What you are arguing is that if a person has abnormally elevated free testosterone because his testicles produce it he is a great athlete whereas the person that has the same abnormally elevated free testosreone because he injects it is a cheat. This is an arbitrary distinction.

On what basis are some "egotistical initiative"'s good and others bad? What about women wearing make-up? Cosmetic facial surgery? Tanning? Depilation? Wearing dental braces? Dental bleaching? Dyeing grey hair? Wearing jewellery? Driving a prestige vehicle? Breast implants? Cosmetic liposuction? There exists no valid criteria for deeming muscle growth via weight training/diet/AAS bad and breast enlargement via saline/silicone implant good.

Lastly, at least try not to be ethnocentric. AAS are actually legal for personal use in most of the world including the UK.

No good argument exists for criminalising self-regarding behaviour. If it is legitimate to criminalise some douche bag that uses AAS to enhance muscle growth on the grounds that he is harming himself then it would also be legitimate to criminalise every super morbidly obese person that is eating themselves sick. How about every alcoholic that has given themselves cirrhosis or every smoker that has given themselves emphysema? Should they be fined and/or imprisoned and given a criminal record?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(01-10-2013 09:14 AM)Chippy Wrote:  AAS are actually legal for personal use in most of the world including the UK.

I did not know that.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: