The Case For Legalizing Steroids
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04-08-2013, 09:26 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(04-08-2013 09:09 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 08:56 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Provided I don't have to pay to fix ones 'meth mouth' or chronic lung disease or horrific infection, etc., etc...

I would support decriminalization across the board mind you. It's just that the truly harmful stuff just compounds the impending healthcare crisis, so it really need to be a 'swim at your own risk' kinda thing.

Even paying for their meth mouth would be cheaper than what we have now. The cost in terms of inneffective law enforcement, jailing costs, crime caused by addicts who are desperate.

Fuckit, give them healthcare. At least they have a higher chance of contributing to society. Allot of the horrific stuff happens because of the illegality of said substance. It forces them to become outcasts.

Probably right, cheaper then 60k a year in incarceration costs(we do fix teeth in jail from what I understand), and I assume most of these people are uninsured anyway... I worry that the state/insurance lobby will try to pass that cost to the health consumer anyway though.

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05-08-2013, 01:45 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
When I was in the Marines back in the mid-80s, some of my peers got into steroids - you can imagine the pressure within the Corps to be buff and studly. Soon the brass began to crack down on users and it became a punishable offense to juice.

For a long time I was against steroids. I knew one Marine on the stuff who got bloated and pimply, and after they became verboten another got kicked out after popping on a piss test. I heard the lurid stories about bitch tits, 'roid rage, and cheaters in sports.

Fast-forward to the present day and a middle-aged body with some nagging injuries, which prompted me to read various books on the subject and watch a documentary or two. At this point, I believe steroids should be legalized, but I'm not sure how that would look. I can't imagine folks using them without medical supervision, especially with the various types and combinations of steroids a person can cycle through depending on the results they are seeking. And of course sports organizations and the military would have to make some regulations and accommodations.

Another aspect that intrigues me is the supplement angle. Despite my skepticism, I take a lot of fitness supplements with the hope that they will help me build muscle, lose fat, and enable me to keep up with the younger chaps in my martial arts classes. But frankly, I can't help but feel that a testosterone prescription from my doctor would do more for me in that department than all the pills, powders, and potions at GNC - especially since supplements are mostly unregulated (but that's another discussion).

In the end, I'm for anything that will improve my quality of life, especially as I get older and have less of it to waste. I'm glad marihuana is now legal in my state, and I want it to be taxed, regulated for quality control, and also be able to get my doctor's input on the best way to take it. It would be cool to have those benefits with steroids as well.
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05-08-2013, 03:06 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(04-08-2013 06:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  6+ years juicing now, brother. Topical steroids don't have no hepatic effects or any of the other ones you indicate. ... Time for Girly to motherfucking juice, bitch.

You are also using steroids for medicinal purposes because of your deficiency, right?

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05-08-2013, 04:35 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(05-08-2013 03:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 06:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  6+ years juicing now, brother. Topical steroids don't have no hepatic effects or any of the other ones you indicate. ... Time for Girly to motherfucking juice, bitch.

You are also using steroids for medicinal purposes because of your deficiency, right?

Liver damage is usually because of impurities or because it was taken orally rather than absobed though skin or injected. Testosterone shouldn't be taken orally.

Street stuff can have dangerous impurities. Another reason to legalize it. Power to the people.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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05-08-2013, 09:50 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2013 10:25 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(05-08-2013 04:35 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(05-08-2013 03:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You are also using steroids for medicinal purposes because of your deficiency, right?

Liver damage is usually because of impurities or because it was taken orally rather than absobed though skin or injected. Testosterone shouldn't be taken orally.

Street stuff can have dangerous impurities. Another reason to legalize it. Power to the people.

You can take testosterone sublingually though since that bypasses the first-pass metabolism of the liver. But the short half-life makes sublingual impractical for therapeutic purposes. Transdermal is now the preferred method of administration because it mimics the natural daily fluctuations better than injections which initially start out with supraphysiological levels and then over a course of weeks or months (depending on the ester) drop back to subnormal levels. And yes Logica, I have a script. The Androgel would cost me $700/month instead of $60 otherwise. Tongue

(05-08-2013 01:45 AM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  But frankly, I can't help but feel that a testosterone prescription from my doctor would do more for me in that department than all the pills, powders, and potions at GNC - especially since supplements are mostly unregulated (but that's another discussion).

I can vouch for that. Supplements don't do dick compared with testosterone. Every man should get a blood test if for no other reason than to have a baseline level to restore to when shit goes south (and shit goes south for many of us). I didn't have a baseline when I came in at 214 ng/dl on a 300-1100 scale so my Doc and I shoot for the upper quartile just because I feel good there.

(03-08-2013 10:39 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  I've been trying to get my hands on ostarine for a while now.

I think SARMs are the future for muscle wasting especially in individuals where testosterone is contraindicated (enlarged prostate/prostate cancer or they just want to avoid the risk of premature male pattern baldness), but don't underestimate DHT. It is the most potent androgen and is responsible for all things manly, in particular libido. This is why a not insignificant number of individuals using finasteride or other DHT blockers to slow hair loss end up with limp dick.

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05-08-2013, 10:36 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(05-08-2013 04:35 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Liver damage is usually because of impurities or because it was taken orally rather than absobed though skin or injected. Testosterone shouldn't be taken orally.

Street stuff can have dangerous impurities. Another reason to legalize it. Power to the people.

I am not arguing against their legality. I am saying that safe steroids are available for medicinal purposes.

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05-08-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
That's why I want ostarine rather than a dht blocker. The best of both worlds. Performance enhancing as well. It still has an effect on other cell types, just around half of what testosterone would do.

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05-08-2013, 02:14 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(05-08-2013 10:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I am not arguing against their legality. I am saying that safe steroids are available for medicinal purposes.

That should be made available to anyone who wants it. Right now you need to convince a doctor to prescribe it.

Black market steroids wouldn't exist if things were better.

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05-08-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
Can I be a contrarian ?

I just don't see the point of drugs in sport. Sure they give you an edge. But if everyone in sport took drugs it'd be a level playing field again, except the bar to entry is higher because to be any good you have to have the money or backing, and the desire, to be pumped full of special drugs.

For example, running would suffer tremendously. Big races (in SA at least) are regularly won by people from really sucky horrible *poor* backgrounds, who overcome their difficulties and are good enough to leave all the privileged athletes with their designer diets in the dust. If drugs were allowed in major competitions they would lose all hope of competing equally.
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05-08-2013, 04:59 PM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(04-08-2013 08:17 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I chose About for the list because others that I checked said they were only issuing a partial list of side effects.

This came from the CDC.

Quote:Possible side effects of short-term corticosteroid use: ...

Yeah, corticosteroids like prednisone and cortisone can have some nasty side effects, but they are neither performance enhancing nor banned and are regularly used to treat injuries. Long term use will fuck you up though. I got a friend who had to take them for years and now he's got a titanium shoulder and hip.

(05-08-2013 01:33 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  That's why I want ostarine rather than a dht blocker. The best of both worlds. Performance enhancing as well. It still has an effect on other cell types, just around half of what testosterone would do.

Yup SARMs will offer a whole host of treatment options and have a number of distinct advantages over AAS. They can be used by women to treat muscle wasting, osteoporosis and even libido issues without having any virilizing effects. They can be used by men in whom testosterone is otherwise contraindicated. They won't cause HPTA shutdown so you still make your own natural levels of testosterone and your fellas won't shrivel and shrink into dormancy. While the SARMs are still in clinical trials, SERMs like Tamoxifen are currently in use to treat breast cancers. But SARMs are definitely the future for a whole host of ailments. What SARMs won't be able to treat is primary hypogonadism, testosterone is the only treatment for that. They may be the future but they won't help Girly none.

(05-08-2013 03:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  Can I be a contrarian ?

I just don't see the point of drugs in sport. Sure they give you an edge. But if everyone in sport took drugs it'd be a level playing field again, except the bar to entry is higher because to be any good you have to have the money or backing, and the desire, to be pumped full of special drugs.

For example, running would suffer tremendously. Big races (in SA at least) are regularly won by people from really sucky horrible *poor* backgrounds, who overcome their difficulties and are good enough to leave all the privileged athletes with their designer diets in the dust. If drugs were allowed in major competitions they would lose all hope of competing equally.

If you're talking about middle-to-long distance races, there just aren't many PEDs to begin with. EPO and blood doping to raise the level of oxygen in the blood are about the only ones I can think of. Marathon runner ain't gonna take AAS to bulk up (sprinters do though). So that field is pretty damn level to begin with and will likely stay that way. For sports where PEDs are prevalent, the problem is the playing field has never been level and never will be. The drug testers will always be playing catch up with the chemists. Tweak a molecule here and a chemical bond there and you got a whole new compound which may have similar effects to the original but is undetectable by current tests. By the time a test is available, chemist already has another one ready.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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