The Case For Legalizing Steroids
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08-08-2013, 06:35 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(08-08-2013 03:40 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Legal or not, is it effective in stopping people from aquiring ostarine or is it simply making things more dangerous?

I don't know, that's why I haven't supported either way as of yet. I want to see conclusive evidence that legalizing it would be beneficial.

(08-08-2013 03:40 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  My opinion. When there is demand, there is supply, in one form or another. That statement seems to match reality quite well. You can try to cut off the supply, but you aren't getting the dandelion by its roots. Another supplier will spring up. It's the law of the market. The way governments approach this is broken.

I agree, I think the government should legalize and heavily regulate dangerous substances. I do not, however, think that would rest well with most people.

(08-08-2013 03:40 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  You know the definition of insanity? It's doing the same thing again and again and thinking "This time it will be different. This time I will cut off the drug supply for good."

Well, that's Albert Einstein's personal definition of insanity, but I get your point. I still remain on the fence about this issue. I see steroid's role in medicinal matters, but I don't see much justification for individuals using it for vain use.

(08-08-2013 03:40 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Also, I'm still interested to hear how you claim steroids are more dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Empty words isn't convincing enough for me. Whether your conclusions are logical or illogical remains to be seen. Not looking promising so far, good luck with that.

I have looked at the side effects of both. Long-term usage of alcohol results in anxiety disorders, depression, and liver disease. I will correct my stance and say that long-term alcoholism is only slightly less damaging than long-term steroid use.

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08-08-2013, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2013 06:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(08-08-2013 02:44 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 08:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'm calling bullshit. "More dangerous than alcohol"? You're a fucking kid who has no fucking idea or experience of what we are talking about. ...Eat what we eat or shut the fuck up kid.

Oh, so because I am younger than you it obviously means I can't research the dangers of both substances and logically conclude which is more dangerous? Fuck you, Girlyman, this isn't a dohyo.

Well that was a little abrupt of me, must've been a few sheets to the wind. But my point remains. I'm sure you are quite capable of researching it but you sure as hell haven't demonstrated it here yet. And you are not personally invested in it so I doubt you have the will or desire to spend hundreds of hours reading pubmed articles like Girly has.

(04-08-2013 06:03 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Depression, carcinoma of the prostate, numerous potentially life-threatening hepatic side effects, anemia, and mood swings all seem pretty serious. I don't know though, I am neutral to this topic.

And there's an example of your lack of research. Testosterone cured my lifelong depression. Estrogen is now considered the culprit behind prostate cancer just like breast cancer. Testosterone has all but been exonerated (but is still contraindicated in prostate cancer patients because it metabolizes into estrogen and DHT). Anemia? Don't know where you got that one from but it's just the opposite. Testosterone can cause an increase in red blood cell count or "thick blood". Some men use regular blood donation to alleviate it. Hasn't happened to Girly. Mood swings? Well sure, I can go from feeling like hamataK to Ferdinand just by manipulating my dosage and schedule. You might very well be capable of doing the research, but I see no signs that you have done it. Your claim that testosterone and other anabolic androgenic steroids are only slightly less dangerous than alcohol is preposterous and absurd. You can make the claim that corticosteroids are far more dangerous than alcohol but that ain't what we're talking about here.

Let's take a look at what the actual adverse side effects of Androgel are:

acne - hasn't happened to Girly, usually indicates you're converting too much testosterone to estrogen, some men take the breast cancer drug Arimidex to inhibit the conversion, and some Docs even prescribe it ... sounds a tad extreme to me, overtweaking and micromanagement.
aggressive behaviour - well duh, it's testosterone for Christ's sake
changes in sexual desire or drive - yeah, Girly's got a libido now
dizziness - hasn't happened to Girly
hair loss, thinning hair, or baldness - hasn't happened to Girly, likely don't have the gene for male pattern baldness
polycythemia - "thick blood" hasn't happened to me but some men give blood regularly to treat it
testicular atrophy - yeah, but I don't give a shit
headache - hasn't happened to Girly
mood changes - yeah, Girly's no longer a depressed pussy, was able to quit my antidepressants shortly after starting TRT
prostate disorders - Girly keeps an eye on his PSA and ejaculates regularly to keep my old man prostate happy, so far so good
skin irritation where applied - hasn't happened to Girly
sleep apnea - hasn't happened to Girly
weight gain - yeah about 20 lbs of mostly lean body mass (aka muscle)
breast soreness or enlargement - manboobs usually indicate you're converting too much testosterone to estrogen - hasn't happened to Girly, little puffiness in my left nipple but nothing palpable so don't qualify as gyno
depression - fixed mine
high blood pressure - nope
problems with urination - nope
prolonged or painful erections, or erections that happen too often - yup, spontaneous erections at the most inopportune times (like when I'm standing in front of a bunch of old men giving a briefing)
swelling of ankles and legs - nope, but did happen to a colleague of mine who had to quit TRT because of it
liver problems - nope, liver enzymes look good

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-08-2013, 12:48 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
If you wanna change policy you're gonna need scientific studies and enough people to care...
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09-08-2013, 02:14 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(09-08-2013 12:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  If you wanna change policy you're gonna need scientific studies and enough people to care...

What gets passed as policy has nothing to do with science.

Eg: alcohol and tobacco.

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09-08-2013, 02:25 AM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2013 02:34 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(08-08-2013 05:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Well that was a little abrupt of me, must've been a few sheets to the wind. But my point remains. I'm sure you are quite capable of researching it but you sure as hell haven't demonstrated it here yet. And you are not personally invested in it so I doubt you have the will or desire to spend hundreds of hours reading pubmed articles like Girly has.

I have listed both substance's long-term side effects and concluded that use of anabolic steroids is slightly worse than the effects alcoholism. Keep in mind that the conclusion is addressed to individuals without an illness, not you. That is why I have not questioned the validity of medicinal use.

(08-08-2013 05:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And there's an example of your lack of research. Testosterone cured my lifelong depression. Estrogen is now considered the culprit behind prostate cancer just like breast cancer. Testosterone has all but been exonerated (but is still contraindicated in prostate cancer patients because it metabolizes into estrogen and DHT). Anemia? Don't know where you got that one from but it's just the opposite. Testosterone can cause an increase in red blood cell count or "thick blood". Some men use regular blood donation to alleviate it. Hasn't happened to Girly. Mood swings? Well sure, I can go from feeling like hamataK to Ferdinand just by manipulating my dosage and schedule. You might very well be capable of doing the research, but I see no signs that you have done it. Your claim that testosterone and other anabolic androgenic steroids are only slightly less dangerous than alcohol is preposterous and absurd. You can make the claim that corticosteroids are far more dangerous than alcohol but that ain't what we're talking about here.

All those symptoms were pulled from the same article that Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver used to justify its legalization.

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09-08-2013, 02:25 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
Did you see the bit where I said you need enough people to care ?

And it does have *somewhat* to do with science. That's why food and drug administration exists in the US, to ensure that drugs on the market there are properly regulated. I imagine most other countries have something similar.

Besides which not being scientifically based is hardly a positive.
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09-08-2013, 02:29 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(09-08-2013 02:25 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  All those symptoms were pulled from the same FDA article that Deep Thought used.

Really?

What article did I use?

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09-08-2013, 02:31 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(09-08-2013 02:29 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Really?

What article did I use?

Ah, woops! XD Wrong person. And wrong link I referred to as well.

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09-08-2013, 03:04 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(09-08-2013 02:31 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 02:29 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Really?

What article did I use?

Ah, woops! XD Wrong person. And wrong link I referred to as well.

Wasn't that article referring to corticosteroids?

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09-08-2013, 03:06 AM
RE: The Case For Legalizing Steroids
(09-08-2013 03:04 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Wasn't that article referring to corticosteroids?

Was it?

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