The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-02-2012, 09:22 AM
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
(02-02-2012 09:18 AM)Smooshmonster Wrote:  And what evidence do you have for the statement that a human being starts at conception? At that point, all you have is a cell. Granted, it's a cell that has the potential to develop into a human being, but then so does a sperm. And yet you are not defining that as a human life. It seems to be incredibly arbitrary.

If a sperm is human life then I've killed off nations Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like morondog's post
02-02-2012, 09:39 AM
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
(02-02-2012 09:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  @ robotworld: Don't confuse him with long and difficult words like "essentially" and "elaborate" and even worse "circumstances". Just make a drawing and a question mark Wink

Still reading the "Egor's Proof of God" thread. He seems a little extreme, but I wish to hear his viewpoints with regards to my questions. Anyway...
[Image: 88528579.png]
I've done this in good humour and wish not to offend Sleepy

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-02-2012, 09:40 AM
 
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
(02-02-2012 01:48 AM)Egor Wrote:  
Quote: 2) What, in your opinion, is the Bible?

The Old Testament is historical reference and background for the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and Thomas. The letters in the New Testament of Paul, Peter, James, John, and the writer of Hebrews are commentary on the Gospels. The Gospels are miraculous documents that shouldn't’t even exist at this point in our history. They have the power to transform us into the substance of Christ.

I almost find myself in agreement with Ego here. I'd say 50/50.
I dont agree they are miraculous, nothing there that's not been explained by natural causes or fixed due to modern medicine.
I DO, however, agree they should not exist. Any BOOK EDITOR of any substance would read it, see the constant contradictions, see the fact it borrowed from other myths, the made up locations to make their superhero have a home (no Nazareth) and time lines that simply don't reconcile with a. themselves b. the REAL historical record, and toss that book in the garbage.

A real editor would have scrapped that book and started over with their lore.

The so called miraculous Gospels cant even get the birth narrative straight, for Xenu's sake!

I dont even have the energy to go into the whole Life begins at Erection stuff of Ego's. He's brainwashed by all those sensational videos he saw and stopped his research. EGOR is the reason goons like Breitbart have a career. There is volumes of actual science about this stuff. My words would be wasted on him. He's not here for debate, he's here to convert...at all costs.

I have spent too much time on this stuff. He's not listening.
I once believed as Egor believed (without the WWE/Violent streak). I then started thinking and the the world was opened to me.

I gotta get back to work!
D
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Denicio's post
02-02-2012, 10:37 AM
 
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
Quote: Thank you Egor for your reply.

1)So, you believe that there is a God and his son, and they are known by different names in different religions, but all these different religions are essentially worshipping the same deity and its subordinates?

I honestly don’t know how Buddhists or Hindus would answer that, but God is God, whether He is called Brahman, Allah, God or even Zeus. And where the concept of Jesus Christ is similar, then they are the same; the concept being the transformation of man into God on Earth. To believe in Christ is to believe that we are not good in our natural state, or sufficient in our natural state, but must be transformed, born again, into that which becomes God conscious of Himself from within His creation. This is the concept of Christ, our greatest example and teacher being Jesus Christ. And this is the heart of the message of Veridicanism which is the type of Christianity I follow.


Quote:2) With regards to your statement:
"The Gospels are miraculous documents that shouldn’t even exist at this point in our history. They have the power to transform us into the substance of Christ."

Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure what you really mean.

The Catholic Church had control of these documents for some 1200 years, and these Gospels condemn almost everything the Catholic Church practices. The Catholic Church could have changed these documents or destroyed them, but they didn’t. Instead they kept them, translated them, scribed them throughout the ages until the Protestant Reformation and the invention of the printing press released them to the entire English-speaking world. That’s the first miracle.

The second is the depth of the documents. I don’t know any other literature like it. With many of the passages, there is a surface meaning, but then there is a deeper symbolic meaning, and even deeper is a kind of meaning where it doesn’t matter what it says on the surface, the intent is to produce a specific change within the reader just by the impact of what they’ve read.

Then there is the reproducibility of the Gospels. You don’t need four of them. If any one of them survived even in part, you could reconstruct the intent of the entire Gospel message. If all you had was the Sermon on the Mount or The thieves on the Cross next to Christ, or the Trial of Christ, or any one of the many healings or miracles, you could come to understand what God is telling humankind through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The whole intent of the Gospel is to change us into the substance of Christ. This is where the whole idea of communion in church comes from. We are what we eat and drink. In a mystical sense when we consume the body and blood of Christ through the ingestion of his life and words, we are transformed into Christ. Most Christians, however, do not believe in this. But I believe this is the change that the Gospels produce in the reader.

Quote:3) You define life as "consciousness". Do you mean that only conscious living things have "life"? If yes, just curious, do you consider a bacterium as an organism which possess life? Also, as you have mentioned, once you have the complete knowledge of God, you can have eternal life. I'm curious to how is it possible to achieve that even by the most pious individual.

The word “life” I suppose can have lots of meanings. But life, as I use it in religious discussion, is the continuation of consciousness. Bacteria are alive in the biological sense, I don’t know if they have consciousness.

The continuation of consciousness is the ever growing revelation of God until one has complete knowledge of God, and in that time they would be one with God and that would be eternal life. One doesn’t accomplish that in this life here on earth. One would need much more revelation, and I think that’s what heaven is all about, the next phase of our existence.

Quote:4) At conception, upon the fusion of the two gametes? I hope to know why you consider so. Even so, do you allow abortion under certain circumstances? For instance, an abortion is needed to save the life of the mother. Consider the fact that both the parent and child would die if the abortion is not carried out.

A person can get an abortion any time they want, so long as they realize they are killing a living human being in the process. There are all kinds of reasons to kill another human being. Sometimes it’s murder and sometimes it isn’t. But even when it’s murder, so long as the murderer knows what they are doing is wrong and never forgets that, there is still a chance they will ask for forgiveness.

There can be no worse situation than having to decide between two innocent lives as in the case of an ectopic pregnancy. I believe the benefit of life must go to the mother in that case. That’s killing a human life, yes, but it’s not murder. Or if a woman was raped, the abortion of the fetus is a murder transferred to the rapist, not to the mother or the one providing the abortion.
Quote:Thank you for your time

You’re welcome. Thank you for asking.

(02-02-2012 09:18 AM)Smooshmonster Wrote:  So Egor, you oppose the morning after pill too? Do you oppose all methods of contraception or just onces that occur after conception?

Killing a human being is killing a human being. There are all kinds of reasons to kill a human being, but never forget that’s exactly what it is, killing a human being. As for contraception, I really don’t have an opinion on that.

Quote: And what evidence do you have for the statement that a human being starts at conception? At that point, all you have is a cell. Granted, it's a cell that has the potential to develop into a human being, but then so does a sperm. And yet you are not defining that as a human life. It seems to be incredibly arbitrary.

All human beings started at the beginning of the universe in the mind of God. But if we’re talking about when a human being starts in an animal form on earth, I don’t see how you can set any other point except at conception.

Quote:I do know where you're coming from, and I used to be very pro-life. But then I went and researched it, and realised that what I'm accusing people of murdering is no more than a bacterium at that stage.

Okay, so what about midterm and late term abortions?

Quote: I will agree with you that it's not really a black and white case, but to liken it to murder is too much. You're more likely to be committing murder if you kill a cow or a mongoose (not that I call those murder either) because those things at least have a brain and are capable of feeling pain and suffering.

So is abortion ever murder?
Quote this message in a reply
03-02-2012, 06:37 AM
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
Hello and thank you for your reply.

1) Before we go on, can you tell me what Veridicanism is? The closest match I can find on the net is Kemetism, a form of Egyptian neopaganism, and Verdukianism, some religion that believes in the healing power of root beer.

2) Literature with a surface meaning, and a deeper symbolic meaning within it, and an even deeper meaning that was meant to change the reader? I recall reading various books of a similar nature, ranging from Roald Dahl's short stories (The Hitchhiker remains my favourite short story), to Asian literature (Catherine Lim's Little Ironies and Simon Tay's Stand Alone are good examples, subtly highlighting the dark traits of people, in the context of Singapore) and even full novels like Brave New World and 1984, each depicting dystopian futures of social systems gone awry, and such books are influential too, providing a usually cynical and different world view to its readers.

In my opinion, the full gospel should be required in order for its context to be really understood. By only having a small part of the Gospel, it may be insufficient to show the message the gospels are trying to tell us. For instance, just by highlighting Jesus' journey to his crucifixion, one may draw parallels to the Chinese mythological story "Journey to the West" due to similar difficulties Jesus and Tang San Zang faced in their linear journey. I feel that a book should be used under it's correct context to be fair.

3) So, the heaven you have mentioned refers to the "next life" we have? How do we know that it is not a form of reincarnation? Our consciousness may just vanish upon death, making it an eternal rest, or we may be projections from beings of the fourth dimension, video game characters in their literal 3D games.

4) So, your stance is that abortion is ultimately murder, however for special cases (rape, illness), the burden of sin is not placed on the mother? Before we continue, I hope to know, do you believe in the concept of souls?

Thank you once again Smile

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-02-2012, 07:06 AM
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
Quote:Okay, so what about midterm and late term abortions?

I admit I'm rather squeamish about mid to late-term abortions myself. And this is an emotional response, not a rational one. But these abortions are only carried out in the extreme cases, as far as I know (at least from what I have read and heard, I might be wrong). Sometimes people need to make tough decisions, and whether or not I would make the same one, I am no position to judge them until I've been through it myself.

Quote:So is abortion ever murder?

Maybe. You can't put a label on something that differs so hugely from one case to another. But calling everyone who is pro-choice a child-murderer is still wrong. If you talk to us about it you'll find that we are not baby-killers or even foetus-killers.
I am more interested in eliminating the underlying cause of unwanted pregnancy. But in some cases, abortion is unfortunately the only answer.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Smooshmonster's post
19-02-2012, 12:02 PM
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
(02-02-2012 09:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  If a sperm is human life then I've killed off nations Big Grin

As only Bill Hicks can... The actual line is at 1:15.



"Religion is the binky of a teen-age humanity."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like yosemitesam's post
20-02-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
Whats a "pro-child" murder? (Just curious)

I don't really want to buy the book, so can someone tell me, does it have historical evidence or not?

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-02-2012, 11:38 AM
 
RE: The Case for Christ on Egor's Blather
(20-02-2012 11:34 AM)Red Tornado Wrote:  Whats a "pro-child" murder? (Just curious)

I don't really want to buy the book, so can someone tell me, does it have historical evidence or not?

The book is not historically researched. Its researched with extreme bias.

I offered up to Ego this, and he refused to read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Chris...1578840058

Strobel is an attorney, Price is a Theolgan GURU.

Strobel's book is a joke and price answerd the book in typical Price fashion.
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Denicio's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: