The Catholic/Christian Disparity
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23-05-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(23-05-2014 10:10 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Some Catholics are Christian and some aren't.

Being a Christian doesn't depend on what church a person is a member of but on his relationship with God. When someone recognizes that he is a sinner, believes that Jesus died to atone for his sins, and receives forgiveness by faith in Jesus he becomes a Christian. Most Christians then join a church but joining the church is the result of their being a Christian, not the way they become one.

There are a lot of church members who believe the doctrines of Christianity are true but who have never personally repented and put their faith in Jesus. They often believe that being a member of a church is what makes them a Christian.

All churches, including the Catholic church, have members of both kinds.

How very baptist of you. Christians are people who believe that Jesus was the messia. All that other stuff is denominational mumbo-jumbo.
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23-05-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(22-05-2014 05:31 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  So, yesterday at school I had the following conversation:

Acquaintance (paraphrased): "The Catholics aren't Christians"
Me: "What? Of course they are!
Acquaintance: "No they're not."
Me: "The main tenants of Christianity are the belief in the deity-status of Jesus and the worship thereof. Catholics do both."
Acquaintance: "No, the Catholics think Jesus was a prophet, not god."
(I suspect he doesn't know the difference between Catholicism and Islam in retrospect)
Me: "The Catholics have a triple-deity sort of deal going on, but Jesus as the Son of God is one of the three along side the Holy Ghost and God itself."
(And he denied it again....)

And so, I have to ask legitimately, jokes aside: can anybody please explain to me why there is such a massive disconnect between the Catholic side of Christianity and the other side?
I realise there must be considerable emphasis the Protestant side, and thus a natural inclination to look at the subject in an odd way, but I feel like there must be something else going on to cause not only the believers but the non-believers (I am assuming the acquaintance is some form of non-believer, given that the majority of Australian youths are, either that or he has been very lied to. Or both.) to fail to understand the base lack of a difference.

Or maybe I'm the one who has a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject...


Your acquaintance had just got it backwards. In the early days of Christianity there were two forms of it: Arian and Pauline. The former had only one god while Pauline Christianity had the trinity and Jesus was a deity and was god etc. The Roman Catholic church adopted Pauline trinitarian Christianity over Arian Christianity and actually persecuted Arian Christians such as the Cathars as heretics.
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23-05-2014, 11:37 AM
Re: RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(23-05-2014 11:17 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 05:31 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  So, yesterday at school I had the following conversation:

Acquaintance (paraphrased): "The Catholics aren't Christians"
Me: "What? Of course they are!
Acquaintance: "No they're not."
Me: "The main tenants of Christianity are the belief in the deity-status of Jesus and the worship thereof. Catholics do both."
Acquaintance: "No, the Catholics think Jesus was a prophet, not god."
(I suspect he doesn't know the difference between Catholicism and Islam in retrospect)
Me: "The Catholics have a triple-deity sort of deal going on, but Jesus as the Son of God is one of the three along side the Holy Ghost and God itself."
(And he denied it again....)

And so, I have to ask legitimately, jokes aside: can anybody please explain to me why there is such a massive disconnect between the Catholic side of Christianity and the other side?
I realise there must be considerable emphasis the Protestant side, and thus a natural inclination to look at the subject in an odd way, but I feel like there must be something else going on to cause not only the believers but the non-believers (I am assuming the acquaintance is some form of non-believer, given that the majority of Australian youths are, either that or he has been very lied to. Or both.) to fail to understand the base lack of a difference.

Or maybe I'm the one who has a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject...


Your acquaintance had just got it backwards. In the early days of Christianity there were two forms of it: Arian and Pauline. The former had only one god while Pauline Christianity had the trinity and Jesus was a deity and was god etc. The Roman Catholic church adopted Pauline trinitarian Christianity over Arian Christianity and actually persecuted Arian Christians such as the Cathars as heretics.

There were far more than just two forms of christianity at the time. Some viewed Jesus as only God, or man and God, or never a man, etc.

But I think the friend here is misinformed on catholicism. But he probably heard other Christians call catholics non Christians. It's usually because they adorn saints and Mary along with keeping ul tons of traditions not connected to the Bible in anyway.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-05-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
Who cares? It ain't your cult. Tongue

But it seems to me it's just derivative of the self-righteous nonsense of the lot of 'em. Somebody's gotta be wrong with these people, and since they think they know wtf they're talking about with Christianity, they have more ammo ostracizing members of their own cult.

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23-05-2014, 12:42 PM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
From Merriam-Webster

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christianity

Religion stemming from the teachings of Jesus in the 1st century AD. Its sacred scripture is the Bible, particularly the New Testament. Its principal tenets are that Jesus is the Son of God (the second person of the Holy Trinity), that God's love for the world is the essential component of his being, and that Jesus died to redeem humankind. Christianity was originally a movement of Jews who accepted Jesus as the messiah, but the movement quickly became predominantly Gentile. The early church was shaped by St. Paul and other Christian missionaries and theologians; it was persecuted under the Roman Empire but supported by Constantine I, the first Christian emperor. In medieval and early modern Europe, Christian thinkers such as St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and Martin Luther contributed to the growth of Christian theology, and beginning in the 15th century missionaries spread the faith throughout much of the world. The major divisions of Christianity are Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Nearly all Christian churches have an ordained clergy, members of which are typically though not universally male. Members of the clergy lead group worship services and are viewed as intermediaries between the laity and the divine in some churches. Most Christian churches administer two sacraments, baptism and the Eucharist. In the early 21st century there were more than two billion adherents of Christianity throughout the world, found on all continents.

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23-05-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
Catholics and other Christians have tried to all separate themselves from each other since the beginning. Believing all the others to be wrong.

My mom also thinks Christianity and Catholics are separate. Pretty much every Christian thinks everyone else is not a real Christian unless they go to the exact same church as they do.


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23-05-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(23-05-2014 01:08 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  My mom also thinks Christianity and Catholics are separate. Pretty much every Christian thinks everyone else is not a real Christian unless they go to the exact same church as they do.

A related joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
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23-05-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(23-05-2014 11:37 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(23-05-2014 11:17 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Your acquaintance had just got it backwards. In the early days of Christianity there were two forms of it: Arian and Pauline. The former had only one god while Pauline Christianity had the trinity and Jesus was a deity and was god etc. The Roman Catholic church adopted Pauline trinitarian Christianity over Arian Christianity and actually persecuted Arian Christians such as the Cathars as heretics.

There were far more than just two forms of christianity at the time. Some viewed Jesus as only God, or man and God, or never a man, etc.

But I think the friend here is misinformed on catholicism. But he probably heard other Christians call catholics non Christians. It's usually because they adorn saints and Mary along with keeping ul tons of traditions not connected to the Bible in anyway.

True. Even in the 4 gospels that they count as "canon" the "divinity" is different in each one. "Divinity" in Hebrew culture did not mean what it does today. In NO way, was it ever "equivalent to" or 'same nature" as Yahweh. There are some interesting scholarly papers on the subject.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-05-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(23-05-2014 02:16 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-05-2014 01:08 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  My mom also thinks Christianity and Catholics are separate. Pretty much every Christian thinks everyone else is not a real Christian unless they go to the exact same church as they do.

A related joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.




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23-05-2014, 05:05 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2014 05:13 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: The Catholic/Christian Disparity
(23-05-2014 07:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-05-2014 03:12 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The Roman government created the contents of the new Testament and its canon.

The whole damn show is pretty much the creation of the Roman Catholic Church / government.

Considered from the historical perspective, for Protestants to claim they are the true Christians is...um... rather ridiculous.

I sure wish you would state that as opinion rather than fact.

Because it is only your opinion.

You are right. Some of it is opinion. Yet...also...much of it is fact...such as Constantine, council of Nicea, and the choice of what was included in the canon.
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