The Centrist Party
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07-06-2014, 09:39 PM
The Centrist Party
Hello all, sorry I've been absent for quite some time, but I come bearing news of a wondrous new party that is beginning to take shape in the United States!

The Centrist Party in it's current state is nothing more than a project right now, endorsing Independent candidates who fit the bill and identify as political centrists. The movement identifies candidates who supports candidates who speak out against things such as pork-barrel legislation, and seek real solutions to real problems. They are generally fiscally conservative and socially liberal in the 90s sense of the word (think Bill Clinton without repealing Glass-Steagal).

The Centrist strategy is to take on a number of seats in the senate to break the majority of either side, so that bills will focus mainly on "what do the centrists think?" rather than "what does the majority want?"

The party (movement) is outlined in more detail by Charles Wheelan in his book. He is a magnificent author and I would encourage anyone fed up with the two-party system to take a look (it's like 120 pages, you could burn through it in a night). There is also a website for those of you more tech-oriented (it might require a donation to see, if it does, let me know so I can take it down).

I encourage you guys to look out for centrist candidates in the future and seriously consider them, the system needs to be unfucked, and they may be our saving grace. I want open this up with a question Nye-Ham style: What- if anything- would convince you to vote for a Centrist (or third-party) candidate? (If you aren't in the US please share some experiences you've had with multiple parties and your opinions as well)
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07-06-2014, 09:52 PM
RE: The Centrist Party
(07-06-2014 09:39 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  ...
If you aren't in the US please share
...

Over here: One party state
... a little on the conservative side of central.

It seems to work Yes

I think a third party is part of what the US needs. But they would need to gain and sustain credibility.
They could well pick up some protest votes (like the Liberal Party in the UK) but I suspect a large majority of Murikans are dogmatically aligned to the existing 2 denominations.

Good luck with it, though.

Thumbsup

And welcome back.

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08-06-2014, 04:09 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
A third party can't survive the strategic voting forced upon citizens by a first past three post voting system, so preferential voting should be your first objective. Good luck.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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08-06-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
Bear in mind, the strategy to gain popularity lies in the Senate. There are states within the United States where an independent candidate can win (South Dakota is currently ones of those) and most of the early winners will most likely have to be apostates from a major party who left due to discontentment rather than fresh meat on the board because they already have name-recognition.
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08-06-2014, 08:17 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
(08-06-2014 08:10 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  Bear in mind, the strategy to gain popularity lies in the Senate. There are states within the United States where an independent candidate can win (South Dakota is currently ones of those) and most of the early winners will most likely have to be apostates from a major party who left due to discontentment rather than fresh meat on the board because they already have name-recognition.

I dunno I would personally like to see the Progressive party more so than another centrist party. When just given the ideas of the progressive movement without having them labeled they poll at around 85% approval across the board. People want the progressive ideas but are too turned off by labels that the big 2 throw at them. Progressives have always been the black sheep in american politics and are a more natural fit for a third party than either the libertarian or centrist movements who honestly have majority representation in the Republican and Democratic parties respectively.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-06-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
(08-06-2014 08:17 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-06-2014 08:10 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  Bear in mind, the strategy to gain popularity lies in the Senate. There are states within the United States where an independent candidate can win (South Dakota is currently ones of those) and most of the early winners will most likely have to be apostates from a major party who left due to discontentment rather than fresh meat on the board because they already have name-recognition.

I dunno I would personally like to see the Progressive party more so than another centrist party. When just given the ideas of the progressive movement without having them labeled they poll at around 85% approval across the board. People want the progressive ideas but are too turned off by labels that the big 2 throw at them. Progressives have always been the black sheep in american politics and are a more natural fit for a third party than either the libertarian or centrist movements who honestly have majority representation in the Republican and Democratic parties respectively.

I am inclined to disagree with you for a couple of reasons. The first of them being that while I love progressives (I really do) the majority of Americans do find themselves in the center. The second of them being that one of the key points of Centrists (as set out by Wheelan) is a strong economic understanding.

Now, I want to point something out, Murikuh has a bit of a cultural problem in that we identify ourselves as the "land of opportunity" which has come to mean that through hard work you can be rich and you'll be punished for laziness or apathy. The reason why I find Centrist more viable that Progressive is because the Centrists are focused on a government that does what normal people and businesses can't. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Progressive would say that government is to do whatever is within it's power for societal benefits. This is not to say that a Centrist would only support a minimalist government, it is to say that it would try to take the most efficient path (let's say private prisons were somehow viable, a Progressive would say "let's run the prisons" and a Centrist would say "let's regulate the prisons", bad example, but you get the point).
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08-06-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
(08-06-2014 08:35 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  
(08-06-2014 08:17 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I dunno I would personally like to see the Progressive party more so than another centrist party. When just given the ideas of the progressive movement without having them labeled they poll at around 85% approval across the board. People want the progressive ideas but are too turned off by labels that the big 2 throw at them. Progressives have always been the black sheep in american politics and are a more natural fit for a third party than either the libertarian or centrist movements who honestly have majority representation in the Republican and Democratic parties respectively.

I am inclined to disagree with you for a couple of reasons. The first of them being that while I love progressives (I really do) the majority of Americans do find themselves in the center. The second of them being that one of the key points of Centrists (as set out by Wheelan) is a strong economic understanding.

Now, I want to point something out, Murikuh has a bit of a cultural problem in that we identify ourselves as the "land of opportunity" which has come to mean that through hard work you can be rich and you'll be punished for laziness or apathy. The reason why I find Centrist more viable that Progressive is because the Centrists are focused on a government that does what normal people and businesses can't. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Progressive would say that government is to do whatever is within it's power for societal benefits. This is not to say that a Centrist would only support a minimalist government, it is to say that it would try to take the most efficient path (let's say private prisons were somehow viable, a Progressive would say "let's run the prisons" and a Centrist would say "let's regulate the prisons", bad example, but you get the point).

And that right there is why the ideas do so much better when divorced from the label. Progressives are not Socialists, though they do support some of the better ideas of that movement (universal healthcare among others) The Progressive stance is one of increasing the opportunity of the average citizen along with paring back the power of the corporate oligarchy. The main push to repeal Citizens United is a progressive initiative. The Progressive stance is more of trying new ideas and discarding old ones that do not work but are kept just because "that's the way it has always been" such as the Death Penalty (costs huge amounts of money has 0 effectiveness) along with a scaling back of the military industrial complex.

Now please explain what your party would be heralding that the Dems (the current centrist party) are not?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-06-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
(08-06-2014 08:46 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(08-06-2014 08:35 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  I am inclined to disagree with you for a couple of reasons. The first of them being that while I love progressives (I really do) the majority of Americans do find themselves in the center. The second of them being that one of the key points of Centrists (as set out by Wheelan) is a strong economic understanding.

Now, I want to point something out, Murikuh has a bit of a cultural problem in that we identify ourselves as the "land of opportunity" which has come to mean that through hard work you can be rich and you'll be punished for laziness or apathy. The reason why I find Centrist more viable that Progressive is because the Centrists are focused on a government that does what normal people and businesses can't. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Progressive would say that government is to do whatever is within it's power for societal benefits. This is not to say that a Centrist would only support a minimalist government, it is to say that it would try to take the most efficient path (let's say private prisons were somehow viable, a Progressive would say "let's run the prisons" and a Centrist would say "let's regulate the prisons", bad example, but you get the point).

And that right there is why the ideas do so much better when divorced from the label. Progressives are not Socialists, though they do support some of the better ideas of that movement (universal healthcare among others) The Progressive stance is one of increasing the opportunity of the average citizen along with paring back the power of the corporate oligarchy. The main push to repeal Citizens United is a progressive initiative. The Progressive stance is more of trying new ideas and discarding old ones that do not work but are kept just because "that's the way it has always been" such as the Death Penalty (costs huge amounts of money has 0 effectiveness) along with a scaling back of the military industrial complex.

Now please explain what your party would be heralding that the Dems (the current centrist party) are not?

The Centrists are basically the Democrats of the 90s, not the Democrats of today. Democrats have gotten to the point where they are calling anyone who isn't associated with them a Libertarian, much the same as Republicans call anyone that doesn't agress with them a Liberal (as if that is an insult). I think what the Centrists really have over the Democrats is the oppurtunity to be specific and clear. While I would say that the Democratic stance towards guns is to regulate them, not get rid of them, they have been portrayed as anti-gun (and some, indeed, are).

The current "goal" of the centrists though is to act as political power brokers in the Senate, so that legislation can't just be shoved through the system because one side has a majority in both houses and has the white house. So the biggest difference is that is can stifle bad legislation and keep it from passing blindly. Yes, a progressive could do the same, but once again we go to the culture- idealogy, yeah, progressivism sounds great, but Centrists are pragmatic realists, the focus is on what we can do.

Here's an issue that you may not have considered, but let's take biofuel subsidies. Corn growers love this subsidy, and so do most others because to liberals it is environmentally friendly, and to conservatives it is good for their constituents (corn-farmers tend to vote Republican). Here's the thing, Centrists say that these subsidies are a scam and a waste of money because when you really look at it, the logistics of it doesn't work, you simply can't grow enough corn to replace other fuels, or really make a substantial impact. And most of the equipment they use on their farms is diesel, so you could actually argue that the subsidy causes more pollution than it prevent. Is it popular to be against Biofuel? No, but Centrists are anyway because it is right. It's easy to say what SOUNDS good, and that is what the democrats do (I am currently a registered Democrat in my state for the record), but say what is good, that's hard (and it's not in the bible, so the Republicans are definitely not on that side of things).
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08-06-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: The Centrist Party
(08-06-2014 09:12 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  
(08-06-2014 08:46 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  And that right there is why the ideas do so much better when divorced from the label. Progressives are not Socialists, though they do support some of the better ideas of that movement (universal healthcare among others) The Progressive stance is one of increasing the opportunity of the average citizen along with paring back the power of the corporate oligarchy. The main push to repeal Citizens United is a progressive initiative. The Progressive stance is more of trying new ideas and discarding old ones that do not work but are kept just because "that's the way it has always been" such as the Death Penalty (costs huge amounts of money has 0 effectiveness) along with a scaling back of the military industrial complex.

Now please explain what your party would be heralding that the Dems (the current centrist party) are not?

The Centrists are basically the Democrats of the 90s, not the Democrats of today. Democrats have gotten to the point where they are calling anyone who isn't associated with them a Libertarian, much the same as Republicans call anyone that doesn't agress with them a Liberal (as if that is an insult). I think what the Centrists really have over the Democrats is the oppurtunity to be specific and clear. While I would say that the Democratic stance towards guns is to regulate them, not get rid of them, they have been portrayed as anti-gun (and some, indeed, are).

The current "goal" of the centrists though is to act as political power brokers in the Senate, so that legislation can't just be shoved through the system because one side has a majority in both houses and has the white house. So the biggest difference is that is can stifle bad legislation and keep it from passing blindly. Yes, a progressive could do the same, but once again we go to the culture- idealogy, yeah, progressivism sounds great, but Centrists are pragmatic realists, the focus is on what we can do.

Here's an issue that you may not have considered, but let's take biofuel subsidies. Corn growers love this subsidy, and so do most others because to liberals it is environmentally friendly, and to conservatives it is good for their constituents (corn-farmers tend to vote Republican). Here's the thing, Centrists say that these subsidies are a scam and a waste of money because when you really look at it, the logistics of it doesn't work, you simply can't grow enough corn to replace other fuels, or really make a substantial impact. And most of the equipment they use on their farms is diesel, so you could actually argue that the subsidy causes more pollution than it prevent. Is it popular to be against Biofuel? No, but Centrists are anyway because it is right. It's easy to say what SOUNDS good, and that is what the democrats do (I am currently a registered Democrat in my state for the record), but say what is good, that's hard (and it's not in the bible, so the Republicans are definitely not on that side of things).

For the record I did not mean that to be as snarky as it came off, it was a legitimate question and thank you for answering it. However you example is not really a great one, splitting to take a stand against a popular policy is not likely to win much public approval. In the end that is kind of the problem with the Centrist party you already are covered by the Dems 90% of the time and when you are not it is usually because of a situation like this where public opinion is on the other side. So even if you were successful in starting this party they would eventually either just merge with the Dems or become them if they supplanted the Dems. One thing about the Dems is they play to the center because their wings are not organized like the right.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-06-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: The Centrist Party
I consider myself a centrist; but I lean to the left. I don't like the American bipartisan system. When you vote; it's basically a package deal. You might support one issue that is Republican, for instance, but you support other issues that are considered Democrat. Unfortunately, people often assume that just because you support an issue on one side, that means you support all that side's issues when you don't.

I find it ironic that the religion that says man is the center of the universe is the same one that says arrogance is a sin.
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