The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
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22-07-2013, 08:50 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
YEC as a response to evolution is, of necessity, a new thing. However, it's quite clear that prior to the 1800s, believers dated the creation of the universe to no more than 7,000 to 10,000 years ago. Is there any indication among people of faith that there was a belief in an ancient, 4 billion year old earth prior to the 1800s? Because there's plenty of indication that the YEC viewpoint was rather widespread.
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22-07-2013, 08:59 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
(22-07-2013 08:50 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  YEC as a response to evolution is, of necessity, a new thing. However, it's quite clear that prior to the 1800s, believers dated the creation of the universe to no more than 7,000 to 10,000 years ago. Is there any indication among people of faith that there was a belief in an ancient, 4 billion year old earth prior to the 1800s? Because there's plenty of indication that the YEC viewpoint was rather widespread.

Right; I'd certainly agree that was the prevailing opinion. But I'm not sure it can really be characterized as a distinct viewpoint when nobody - not those of most faiths, Christian or otherwise, and not scientists either, so far as there was such a thing as Earth sciences - thought that the Earth was any older than that.

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22-07-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
So my brother has "unfriended" me on Facebook. Waaaaa.
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23-07-2013, 08:06 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
(22-07-2013 08:37 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  6.9 Agnostic,

I reject any assertion that I was hostile in that interaction in any way. You might make the argument that I was hostile BEFORE the segment quoted (there was a reason for it, but I'll concede that point). The passage of a week without hostility and the content of the interaction itself shows quite plainly that the hostility in this interaction came toward me at all points, and from me at none. To be blunt, I'm a little bit tired of my holier-than-thou family approaching me with unbridled hostility and then calling ME hostile when I point it out to them. I refuse to back down in opposing this hypocritical double standard.

You have misunderstood me, I wasn't trying to make an assertion that you were hostile in that interaction, I wasn't even trying to make the argument that you were hostile in the past, if you reread my post, I hope you can see it differently.

I think the crux of my post is "The fact you describe yourself as an atheist could be a source of hostility, ... if you were to describe yourself as an agnostic anti-theist, perhaps he would view you differently?" he may think that you describing yourself as an atheist as hostile, not anything else you've said or done. You were, as cjlr described, polite and reasonable in this exchange.
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23-07-2013, 08:17 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
(20-07-2013 01:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  YEC didn't exist until the 1800s... before that there was no conflict between science and Christianity.

Tell that to Galileo.

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23-07-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
6.9 Agnostic:

I understood your point perfectly. When I say I reject any assertion that I was hostile in any way, that comment is directed at my brother, not at you. If he thinks it's hostile for me to describe myself as an atheist, he's wrong. I think it's hostile that he thinks I'm a dog returning to my vomit and I'm destined for hell. I consider that hostile (and his reference to it, while not explicit, I take as hostility).

I'm not going to water down my beliefs to accommodate the sensibilities of someone who thinks I'm a hellbound dog who eats his own puke.
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23-07-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
Twocult - at first I didn't look at your username at first when reading and then I was like... "Hmm... old farts in Brooklyn... that sounds Witnessy". And then I see your username.

Sorry your brother has unfriended you. I don't have any family members on FB (including those who aren't witnesses themselves seem to stay away).

I tried to fight the battle within family. I learned very quickly that it's pointless. It's like the mafia: when you're in, you're in. When you're out, then they get to work on you.

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23-07-2013, 08:52 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
Here's my intro thread.

My brother is not a Jehovah's Witness, by the way, so the reference to old farts in Brooklyn would not have offended him. Nor was he involved in the other cult. He's just a garden variety fundie.
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23-07-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
(23-07-2013 08:52 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Here's my intro thread.

My brother is not a Jehovah's Witness, by the way, so the reference to old farts in Brooklyn would not have offended him. Nor was he involved in the other cult. He's just a garden variety fundie.

Wow it sucks your brother is putting his imaginary friend in front of his real brother, keep fighting the good fight though we all got your back.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-07-2013, 11:15 AM
RE: The Chicken, the Egg and the Theist
(23-07-2013 08:34 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  6.9 Agnostic:

I understood your point perfectly. When I say I reject any assertion that I was hostile in any way, that comment is directed at my brother, not at you. If he thinks it's hostile for me to describe myself as an atheist, he's wrong. I think it's hostile that he thinks I'm a dog returning to my vomit and I'm destined for hell. I consider that hostile (and his reference to it, while not explicit, I take as hostility).

I'm not going to water down my beliefs to accommodate the sensibilities of someone who thinks I'm a hellbound dog who eats his own puke.

From what you've said, I think your brother is wrong (though clearly deluded). But I don't agree that describing yourself in another way would water down your beliefs, it may change the perception which others have of you, but not what's in your mind.

Anyway, I started a new thread asking if people here were really atheists and so far, many have said they are agnostic-atheists. That's not to say you should label yourself in such a way, but I think like I've said before... it's an option!
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