The Christian Churches are lying to us?
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10-11-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(10-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hi all,

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church has killed fundies, prohibited Bible study, etc., yes. Beware!

Yes, there are thousands of different sects. In history, someone told me there are over 16,000 sects. Something like 15,998, however, read the Bible for themselves and concluded salvation is via faith and not good deeds/good works. We need to start there. Salvation comes via trusting in Heavenly Father through His Son.

You aren't even trying anymore, you're just preaching. Your comment has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

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10-11-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(10-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Salvation comes via trusting in Heavenly Father through His Son.

Salvation? From what?
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10-11-2014, 06:16 PM
Re: RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(10-11-2014 06:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Salvation comes via trusting in Heavenly Father through His Son.

Salvation? From what?
From the sin of wanting to know stuff!
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10-11-2014, 08:17 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(10-11-2014 06:16 PM)photon9 Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 06:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Salvation? From what?
From the sin of wanting to know stuff!

If they just said it as bluntly as that... it would actually make completely perfect sense according to their story... but their incompetence halts their understanding of how to make points and ideas logically consistent.

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10-11-2014, 09:46 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
There's probably a lot of false teachers, so yeah.
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11-11-2014, 07:16 AM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(10-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Something like 15,998, however, read the Bible for themselves and concluded salvation is via faith and not good deeds/good works. We need to start there. Salvation comes via trusting in Heavenly Father through His Son.

The book of James disagrees with you (and Paul). It disagrees enough that Martin Luther wanted it removed from canon.
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12-11-2014, 02:30 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(11-11-2014 07:16 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Something like 15,998, however, read the Bible for themselves and concluded salvation is via faith and not good deeds/good works. We need to start there. Salvation comes via trusting in Heavenly Father through His Son.

The book of James disagrees with you (and Paul). It disagrees enough that Martin Luther wanted it removed from canon.

I am aware that Martin Luther wanted it removed from the canon. I have an apologetic that James 2 is talking about salvation by faith. Other splinter groups that say salvation is by works and cite James 2 include Mormons and JW's.

Again, Luther and others (99% of the many sects) saw salvation by faith as reality in the scriptures. Telling me Luther saw faith-based salvation so clearly he thought James's manuscript may have been apocryphal is strengthening my point. Do you follow my point that most groups that are biblical are, well, biblical? Smile

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12-11-2014, 06:43 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
In my search for the truth, once I realized it was all bullshit, the first thought that popped into my head was that most pastors can't honestly believe either if they have looked through the historical evidence and read the bible. Then you throw in the fact of being asked to pray for 100s of people every week and seeing no impact of that prayer.

I tried to find more evidence of this and came across The Clergy Project, and a lot of other information about atheist pastors, it is fairly common.

So, yes, I would say that they lie to us willfully, the reasoning other than financial stability I cannot answer. I do propose that most good pastors are at a minimum motivational speakers, and if they went in Sunday saying it was all bullshit but they are going to keep preaching morality every week, they probably wouldn't lose many if any followers.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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13-11-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(12-11-2014 02:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Telling me Luther saw faith-based salvation so clearly he thought James's manuscript may have been apocryphal is strengthening my point. Do you follow my point that most groups that are biblical are, well, biblical? Smile

That's both a tautology and a non sequitur. Yes, all biblical groups are biblical and all non biblical groups are not biblical. Also, all red cars are red.

Now, back to the point I was making: a lot of those groups consider themselves biblical and others non-biblical (at least, in some parts of their doctrine). The trick is, the majority of groups that nominally feel they receive their doctrine from the Bible are thought or as non-biblical the the majority of other sects. None of them have ever been able to successfully demonstrate why their interpretation is the correct one. Ever. So, when one of them claims to know how to achieve salvation and it contradicts what another says, they both run off to the Bible to dredge up verses supporting their stance, and they each feel justified in being "biblical".
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13-11-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: The Christian Churches are lying to us?
(13-11-2014 07:35 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(12-11-2014 02:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Telling me Luther saw faith-based salvation so clearly he thought James's manuscript may have been apocryphal is strengthening my point. Do you follow my point that most groups that are biblical are, well, biblical? Smile

That's both a tautology and a non sequitur. Yes, all biblical groups are biblical and all non biblical groups are not biblical. Also, all red cars are red.

Now, back to the point I was making: a lot of those groups consider themselves biblical and others non-biblical (at least, in some parts of their doctrine). The trick is, the majority of groups that nominally feel they receive their doctrine from the Bible are thought or as non-biblical the the majority of other sects. None of them have ever been able to successfully demonstrate why their interpretation is the correct one. Ever. So, when one of them claims to know how to achieve salvation and it contradicts what another says, they both run off to the Bible to dredge up verses supporting their stance, and they each feel justified in being "biblical".

I hear you but I would disagree with that. Case in point. Not one person at this forum, Xian or atheist, would interpret the NT to say that Paul said Jesus had NOT risen from the dead.

We would all agree that of the interpretations Paul taught the resurrection and Paul did not teach a resurrection of Jesus, that one of those interpretations is a person or person(s) being deliberately misleading about the plain sense reading of the text. Do you agree?

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