The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
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02-01-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 04:04 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Alla

Please can you go into more depth about the nature of your "revelation" ?

- How do you know it was revelation ??? (an epistemological question - how do you validate it is revelation not fantasy, hallucination, lucidity dreaming....etc)

-If it was revelation how do you know it was the source you identify ? i.e God, how do you know its not a spirit, demon, psychological entity, disembodied ghost or something else ? (not assuming they exist but what you believe to exist)

-Why do you think you received this revelation ?

-Have you ever taken mind altering substances, especially those which induce lucid dreaming - what is the difference in the experience between a powerful lucid dream and your revelation ? (if your not an experienced lucid dreamer ignore this question)

I ask because I personally have experience in various altered states and want to understand your testimony as best as can be understood by another without being too judgmental.
I am very sorry. I can not do this. Just forget about it. It is not important to anybody but me.
I only wanted to answer a question without going into details.
I am not trying to convince anybody to believe in God. This in not my business - to convert people.
The only thing I will tell why I know it was not evil spirit and how do I know that it is from God.
1)I assume it is OK for evil spirit if I remain to be an atheist.
2)If I follow evil spirit then I will have bad fruits ( consequence).
3)I don't know how I know that it is from God(I've never seen Him) I just know it.
This is the fact: I was an atheist and next moment I knew that Christ is real.
I know that He lives. I can not change this - the fact that I was an atheist and became a theist. I don't even know how?
May be if a mortal person(flesh and blood) convinced me that there is God it would be easier for me to stop believing in God.

Hi Alla

What I still don't understand is how do you know your revelation is anything to do with Jesus ? Was the experience a vision ? A voice ? A feeling in the body ? How was the communication made ? Just asking for a description of the content of the revelation, I fully understand it is not easy to communicate and your not trying to convert anyone.

Why it matters - I study a branch of philosophy known as phenomenology - basically the study of description of experiences.
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02-01-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  God as heavenly father actually despises His children, so much so that every 45 seconds a child dies of malaria. Gods actions show He loves the plasmodium parasite and gives it salvation by survival of the fittest when using little human children and mosquito's as host vectors - basically tools for making more plasmodiums !!! HoboEvil_monster
conclusion - God is a mass child slaughterer torturer gulag concentration camp boss !!!
You're watering it down.


God "kills" EVERYONE.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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02-01-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
Also about revelations in general: (to all people on blog)

My take on the personal revelation thing is it is quite solipsistic and extremely self cantered.

Consider I now have a profound revelation of feeling loved - I mean super love, cosmic love of incredible intensity. Yeah might be trippin' on E and the oxytocin & serotonin are flooding those synaptic clefts.
Now what conclusions can I draw from this revelation of pure, uninhibited, unconditional, devotional, non judgmental and awesome love ?

1. There is a loving God and His presence was made known via His unconditional Love.

2. There was a feeling of Love.

3. There was the appearance of the feeling of Love.

Surely it is a non sequitur fallacy to draw conclusion #1. Nothing in the experience reveals it source.

Surely it is also highly solipsistic and selfish to generalize this feeling as a universal presence of a loving God considering a child dies of malaria every 45 seconds and the amount of agony every second in the world makes your individual feeling of love a drop in a contaminated ocean as much of the world resembles a Gulag concentration camp with God as Boss.
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02-01-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:41 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  God as heavenly father actually despises His children, so much so that every 45 seconds a child dies of malaria. Gods actions show He loves the plasmodium parasite and gives it salvation by survival of the fittest when using little human children and mosquito's as host vectors - basically tools for making more plasmodiums !!! HoboEvil_monster
conclusion - God is a mass child slaughterer torturer gulag concentration camp boss !!!
You're watering it down.


God "kills" EVERYONE.

I was emphasizing the torture and undignified death - your watering it down by saying God kills everyone. I'm saying its a Gulag.
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02-01-2014, 04:52 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
God could have given us an allotted life span but without congenital defects like harlequins Ichtheosis and anencephaly etc. (explained by evolution)
God could have given allotted life spans but without decades of Alzheimer's and nasty brain tumours, Strokes and dozens of other forms of dementia leading to slow torturous deaths with little dignity to the point of elderly people defecating & peeing their pants every day.

So my point is God would be an utterly cruel barbaric gulag concentration camp boss . Saying God Kills everybody is letting God off the hook. (an answer would be God gives life so he can take it away i.e no problems if life has an expiry date - all things have expiry dates - just check the label properly ).
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02-01-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:44 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I was emphasizing the torture and undignified death - your watering it down by saying God kills everyone. I'm saying its a Gulag.
Eh. You're using hyperbole to amplify your derision.
So?

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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02-01-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 03:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  There is a reason why some people never have this kind of experiences.
But I really want to tell you something and what is true:
(02-01-2014 03:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  2)All people will have an opportunity to come to Christ

These two almost seem like a contradiction. I understand that you could have an opportunity to come to Christ without an actual personal revelation, but why give some people an experience so powerful that they "know" there is a god and not others?

Doesn't giving someone undeniable knowledge that god exists cheapen faith? Perhaps faith isn't a big deal in the Mormon church, but it is a huge deal to Protestants.


(02-01-2014 03:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  6)All people will be saved from physical death(hell).

I thought hell was supposed to be spiritual death, not physical. What do you mean that everyone will be saved from it? That it's not permanent?
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02-01-2014, 08:18 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:41 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  You're watering it down.


God "kills" EVERYONE.
(02-01-2014 04:55 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 04:44 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I was emphasizing the torture and undignified death - your watering it down by saying God kills everyone. I'm saying its a Gulag.
Eh. You're using hyperbole to amplify your derision.
So?

He kills some in worse ways than others. I cannot see an all loving god behind Tay Sachs. That's not hyperbole. That's a six-month old kid getting a death sentence that will kill them 100% of the time before they turn five, but slowly and painfully leave them blind and paralyzed first.

Mysterious ways and master plans we can't possibly understand are simply cop outs and non-answers to Tay Sachs.
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02-01-2014, 11:13 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
Hey Alla, thank you for your honest answer. You know what I think of your views, being an ex Mormon myself. Your views btw, YOU seem like a sincere and nice guy. I wonder if you were already in talks with the missionaries before you had your revelation. Had they predisposed you to the idea before it happened.

According to LDS doctrine, do you know what is supposedly my fate when I die? Smile

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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02-01-2014, 11:32 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 11:13 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Hey Alla, thank you for your honest answer. You know what I think of your views, being an ex Mormon myself. Your views btw, YOU seem like a sincere and nice guy. I wonder if you were already in talks with the missionaries before you had your revelation. Had they predisposed you to the idea before it happened.

According to LDS doctrine, do you know what is supposedly my fate when I die? Smile
I am a woman.Smile
No, there were not Mormons in Ukraine at that time yet.
I didn't even know this weird word "Mormon".
Why are you an ex-Mormon? If you don't want to tell that is OK.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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