The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-01-2014, 12:00 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  God as heavenly father actually despises His children, so much so that every 45 seconds a child dies of malaria. Gods actions show He loves the plasmodium parasite and gives it salvation by survival of the fittest when using little human children and mosquito's as host vectors - basically tools for making more plasmodiums !!! HoboEvil_monster
conclusion - God is a mass child slaughterer torturer gulag concentration camp boss !!!
When you know the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ you can understand better why these kind of things happen.
All those things have to happen. This is part of the plan. And we all agree to pass these horrible/evil things.

(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Those little kiddies dying from Malaria fever don't exactly get an opportunity to come close to Christ as they perish in feverish agony as God helps those plasmodium's multiply in their livers and blood stream.
Not according to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. Their lives are not in vain.

(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I don't have an opportunity to get close to Christ because I think the story is man made nonsense & quite absurd. SUrely a God would not hold me responsible for not believing a story that reads more like a legend ?
I can not know exactly how God Father will judge each one of us but I know this:
God understands our hearts. And it is better if you don't believe and be a good person than if you believe and know the truth but than reject it and do evil things.
God will not hold responsible if you don't know His laws or if you do not understand them.
(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:3)There is no one heaven and one hell.
We have no evidence for either.
Sure, I can agree with that.

(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:4)Atheists will not burn in hell
But all people will be judged according to their works. And all people will be rewarded for their good hearts and deeds.
In that case we can make do with secular humanism and don't need Christianity - fine with me.
Unless you want to have eternal life. In order to have eternal life anybody needs Christ. You are not going to be in hell but you will not have the highest degree of the glory - exaltation.


(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:5)Families can be together forever.
Not according to Christianity or Jesus teachings.
"....For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. -- Matthew 10:35-36 "
Families CAN be together forever if they live the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Because of Jesus many families are at war/ divided. And it is true. Jesus just let them know what will happen so they wouldn't be surprised.


(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:]7)God is not only Justice(punishment) He is also Mercy(salvation)
Now let me see ?
God tortures little children killing one of them every 45 seconds from Malaria....that seems like a barbaric savage in charge of a planet with large parts being Gulag concentration camps. I work on a neurological and oncology ward in a hospital - definitely Gods Gulag & torture chamber multiplied endlessly across the Earth. Is this Justice ? NO Is it Mercy NO. Is believing a god who is "just" and "merciful" a useful delusion for some people - seems so.
Again if you know Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ you understand better why this happens. But I don't think you are too interested to know.

(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:8)Do good to all people especially to your family and you will be just fine.
Pretty much the advice of a secular Humanist, Stoic Philosopher, most Secular philosophers or generally wise advice - has nothing to do with God.
Sure.
By the way secular Humanism, Stoic Philosopher, most secular philosophers have parts of the truth.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 12:14 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:30 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Hi Alla
What I still don't understand is how do you know your revelation is anything to do with Jesus ?
Because this revelation was about Him(Jesus). I knew that Jesus was real. And when I knew that I told myself: "If Jesus is real then God Father is also real"
I came to God Father through Jesus Christ. I didn't know exactly who Jesus was I only knew that He is real and I instantly knew that I love Him very much.

(02-01-2014 04:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Was the experience a vision ? A voice ? A feeling in the body ? How was the communication made ? Just asking for a description of the content of the revelation, I fully understand it is not easy to communicate and your not trying to convert anyone.

Why it matters - I study a branch of philosophy known as phenomenology - basically the study of description of experiences.
Again, I am so sorry. I like to share with more details about this experience but not with all people.
I hope word "sacred" can explain why I am not helping you.
I will only tell you that it has something to do with vision and feeling.
And I can tell you that vision is not so impressive and can be forgotten and not so convincing. But the feeling is convincing. It is when you know something is true without any evidence.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 12:17 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 04:44 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 04:41 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  You're watering it down.


God "kills" EVERYONE.

I was emphasizing the torture and undignified death - your watering it down by saying God kills everyone. I'm saying its a Gulag.
to experience physical death and to know evil is part of God's plan.
Without experiencing physical death and without knowing evil we can not have eternal progression.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 12:20 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 11:13 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  According to LDS doctrine, do you know what is supposedly my fate when I die? Smile
We can not know exactly how God will judge each one of us. But we have revelations about different glories. You will get one of them.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 12:22 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(03-01-2014 12:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Unless you want to have eternal life. In order to have eternal life anybody needs Christ. You are not going to be in hell but you will not have the highest degree of the glory - exaltation.

I'm ok with second best.

Would it not be better to convince ten people to be decent secular humanists, than to convince one to be a decent Christian? One person exalted on Cloud Nine, versus ten people chilling on Cloud Four?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 12:27 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(03-01-2014 12:20 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 11:13 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  According to LDS doctrine, do you know what is supposedly my fate when I die? Smile
We can not know exactly how God will judge each one of us. But we have revelations about different glories. You will get one of them.

I know mine according to LDS my friend. I'm excommunicated and have 'denied the holy spirit'. It's outer darkness then spiritual death for me I'm afraid! Smile fortunately I don't believe a word of it. I was pretty much an agnostic theist when I joined and left atheist. ... Anyway, you said earlier you aren't trying to convert people so I'll respect that and won't try and argue with you when I think you're side stepping. Smile

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 12:55 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 08:15 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 03:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  1)There is a reason why some people never have this kind of experiences.
2)But I really want to tell you something and what is true:
All people will have an opportunity to come to Christ
These two almost seem like a contradiction. I understand that you could have an opportunity to come to Christ without an actual personal revelation, but why give some people an experience so powerful that they "know" there is a god and not others?
I don't know. I only know that we are all different. May be those who do not have this experience will not change even if they have it? May be some people will change only by having this kind of experience?
It is NOT important to have this kind of experience. Really. What is important is this: no matter what happens in your life, no matter what kind of test you have always try to do the right choices. Right choices are those choices that help you to become a better and whole person. And many times right choices save you from troubles.
Recently I talked to one young man from my ward. He came from his mission in Detroit back to Idaho for a couple of days because his little brother was killed by a drunk driver. When I have learned that he went on the mission I was very surprised. He didn't want to go to Church. He didn't follow law of chastity and did all things that he was not suppose to do according to the Gospel.
I was wondering what happened to him that he suddenly changed. I asked him.
Very shortly: he told me that one night an angel appeared to him and had "a little talk" with him. From that moment his life changed.
He also told me that this angel was his great grandfather.
All people who didn't have an opportunity to know true Gospel of Jesus Christ in this life will have an opportunity to know it in spirit world.
Gospel is preached to the spirits in spirit world. Christ is the only way to Father. That is why all people have to have an opportunity to come to Father through Christ. God is not respecter of the person.

(02-01-2014 08:15 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Doesn't giving someone undeniable knowledge that god exists cheapen faith? Perhaps faith isn't a big deal in the Mormon church, but it is a huge deal to Protestants.
faith is very big deal. No, it doesn't cheapen faith. Do you remember from the NT what Jesus sometimes called His Apostles? He called them of little faith. And they asked about more faith.
They asked about more faith?! Apostles?! those who walked with God and saw many miracles? They were of little faith?!

(02-01-2014 08:15 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 03:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  6)All people will be saved from physical death(hell).
I thought hell was supposed to be spiritual death, not physical.
Man = spirit +physical body
That is why there are 2 deaths - physical and spiritual. That is why there are 2 hells - physical death and spiritual death.
And that is why there are 2 salvations. Because Jesus didn't sin and took all sins upon Himself He was able to defeat physical death and resurrected. And because of this ALL PEOPLE will resurrect and have immortality. We all die because of one man Adam. And because of one man Jesus Christ we all will live again(immortality or salvation from physical death and physical hell). We didn't do anything wrong to have mortal bodies we don't have and can not do anything to be resurrected. It is a GIFT TO ALL people. You don't have even believe in Christ to be saved from physical hell/death.
But to be saved from spiritual death(we all sin) we have to have faith in Christ.
Because of having faith in Christ we will follow Him and do what He says is important to have ETERNAL LIFE/EXALTATION - salvation from spiritual or second death.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(03-01-2014 12:27 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 12:20 AM)Alla Wrote:  We can not know exactly how God will judge each one of us. But we have revelations about different glories. You will get one of them.

I know mine according to LDS my friend. I'm excommunicated and have 'denied the holy spirit'. It's outer darkness then spiritual death for me I'm afraid! Smile fortunately I don't believe a word of it. I was pretty much an agnostic theist when I joined and left atheist. ... Anyway, you said earlier you aren't trying to convert people so I'll respect that and won't try and argue with you when I think you're side stepping. Smile
You were agnostic. Then you have to know that you didn't deny the Holy Ghost.
Do you know what it means to deny the Holy Ghost?
You were excommunicated for something else and not for denying the Holy Ghost.
I know I am right. But it is not my business. Unless you want to share with me your story.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 01:04 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(03-01-2014 12:22 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 12:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Unless you want to have eternal life. In order to have eternal life anybody needs Christ. You are not going to be in hell but you will not have the highest degree of the glory - exaltation.

I'm ok with second best.

Would it not be better to convince ten people to be decent secular humanists, than to convince one to be a decent Christian? One person exalted on Cloud Nine, versus ten people chilling on Cloud Four?
this is very tricky question. Or it is very hard math.Smile
But I think you are very close to the truth. More people will be on Cloud Four or cloud Eight than on Cloud Nine.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2014, 01:52 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(02-01-2014 08:18 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(02-01-2014 04:41 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  You're watering it down.


God "kills" EVERYONE.
(02-01-2014 04:55 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  Eh. You're using hyperbole to amplify your derision.
So?

He kills some in worse ways than others. I cannot see an all loving god behind Tay Sachs. That's not hyperbole. That's a six-month old kid getting a death sentence that will kill them 100% of the time before they turn five, but slowly and painfully leave them blind and paralyzed first.

Mysterious ways and master plans we can't possibly understand are simply cop outs and non-answers to Tay Sachs.

Yep.
My point to Baruch is that to declare , " God is a mass child slaughterer torturer gulag concentration camp boss !!!" is well and fine, but to purposely ignore the positive that happens in life in order to paint a negative picture, is somewhat disingenuous.

As a believer, I defer to the judgement of the God I believe in. Yet I do not pad it for myself as many of my brethren do. That is to say, if a thing is "good", then it comes from God. If "evil", God permits it. It's all on Gods shoulders from my point of view.

So you'll find no cop out here.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: