The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
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30-12-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(29-12-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I've read the LDS Bible. And so it came to pass that a conman doth scammed a group of people. And So it came to pass that somehow they swallowed the entire stupid tale of the gold plates and the magic rocks and an illiterate man being able to read hieroglyphics except when tested on all of these points he failed. And so it came to pass that the leaders of this group claimed to have a direct line to God and it conveniently meant that their wishes were actually those of Alien being who lives on Kolob and his 1 son but not the other. And so it came to pass that stupid people kept buying into the ridiculous story despite there being not just a lack of evidence for but much evidence against all the stories in the plagiarized book. And so it came to pass that that phrase is used 1297 times in the book of Mormon as opposed to 452 times in the King James Authorised bible.

I've heard bits and pieces of this. Was Joseph Smith ever formally accused of being a con man? Do you have a source? Also, did someone try to test his knowledge of hieroglyphics? Do you have a source on that?

I don't expect to de-convert any Mormons, or anything, but I'm just curious about this.
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30-12-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(29-12-2013 08:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 12:37 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  We're not so much interested in you regurgitating what you have been told and taught that your holy book says. We are interested in what your holy book actually says. As such, if you are going to say that your holy book makes a particular claim we are interested in seeing where it does so with chapter and verse numbers. For example, 1 Nephi 14:1-2 says:
"1 And it shall come to pass, that if the aGentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in bpower, in very deed, unto the ctaking away of their dstumbling blocks—
2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be anumbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a bblessed people upon the cpromised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded."
Source: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/14?lang=eng

If you're quoting from LDS doctrine, then a web site URL would be appropriate. For example: http://mormon.org/what-do-mormons-believe

It is normal in any kind of serious internet discussion to provide sources and references for your claims, so others can check the source material to see whether you are quoting accurately or not. People on the Internet come from a diverse range of backgrounds and often do not have the same upbringing as you do and don't have the same knowledge or ideas. They need some help to see what it is you see and understand what you understand.

The problem that nobody is interested in LDS scriptures. People want quotes from the Bible only.
There is one doctrine that God of Israel doesn't speak any more and that it will be no more books/scriptures from God besides the Bible.

Nobody is interested in the LDS scriptures because they are demonstrably invented bullshit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-12-2013, 07:34 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(29-12-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:51 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Actually, I'm equally interested in both. I don't take either of them seriously in terms of how I should live my life or whether or not I believe in them, but I do take them seriously as a justification for why you believe what you believe.

Again, you'd be surprised how many common beliefs Christians have that aren't Biblical and they don't even know it. We're not asking citations because we think we'll be converted or because we're just trying to fuck with you; we're asking because we want to make sure what you say you believe has some basis in the religious writings as opposed to something you made up/were told by someone.

This is more for you than us, really. You should know why you believe what you believe.

I've read the LDS Bible. And so it came to pass that a conman doth scammed a group of people. And So it came to pass that somehow they swallowed the entire stupid tale of the gold plates and the magic rocks and an illiterate man being able to read hieroglyphics except when tested on all of these points he failed. And so it came to pass that the leaders of this group claimed to have a direct line to God and it conveniently meant that their wishes were actually those of Alien being who lives on Kolob and his 1 son but not the other. And so it came to pass that stupid people kept buying into the ridiculous story despite there being not just a lack of evidence for but much evidence against all the stories in the plagiarized book. And so it came to pass that that phrase is used 1297 times in the book of Mormon as opposed to 452 times in the King James Authorised bible.

The men swallowed the bullshit because they were promised multiple young girls to schtup.
The men dragged their wives and children along because women and children had few rights then and couldn't say no.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-12-2013, 07:35 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(30-12-2013 07:30 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I've read the LDS Bible. And so it came to pass that a conman doth scammed a group of people. And So it came to pass that somehow they swallowed the entire stupid tale of the gold plates and the magic rocks and an illiterate man being able to read hieroglyphics except when tested on all of these points he failed. And so it came to pass that the leaders of this group claimed to have a direct line to God and it conveniently meant that their wishes were actually those of Alien being who lives on Kolob and his 1 son but not the other. And so it came to pass that stupid people kept buying into the ridiculous story despite there being not just a lack of evidence for but much evidence against all the stories in the plagiarized book. And so it came to pass that that phrase is used 1297 times in the book of Mormon as opposed to 452 times in the King James Authorised bible.

I've heard bits and pieces of this. Was Joseph Smith ever formally accused of being a con man? Do you have a source? Also, did someone try to test his knowledge of hieroglyphics? Do you have a source on that?

I don't expect to de-convert any Mormons, or anything, but I'm just curious about this.

Accused? He was fucking convicted. Do you even Google?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-12-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(30-12-2013 07:30 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I've read the LDS Bible. And so it came to pass that a conman doth scammed a group of people. And So it came to pass that somehow they swallowed the entire stupid tale of the gold plates and the magic rocks and an illiterate man being able to read hieroglyphics except when tested on all of these points he failed. And so it came to pass that the leaders of this group claimed to have a direct line to God and it conveniently meant that their wishes were actually those of Alien being who lives on Kolob and his 1 son but not the other. And so it came to pass that stupid people kept buying into the ridiculous story despite there being not just a lack of evidence for but much evidence against all the stories in the plagiarized book. And so it came to pass that that phrase is used 1297 times in the book of Mormon as opposed to 452 times in the King James Authorised bible.

I've heard bits and pieces of this. Was Joseph Smith ever formally accused of being a con man? Do you have a source? Also, did someone try to test his knowledge of hieroglyphics? Do you have a source on that?

I don't expect to de-convert any Mormons, or anything, but I'm just curious about this.

He was convicted of fraud roughly a year before he "found" the golden plates. He had been charged with "being a disorderly person" which was a catch all for frauds con-men vagrants and other undesirables.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smit...ice_system

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-12-2013, 07:56 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(30-12-2013 07:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I've read the LDS Bible. And so it came to pass that a conman doth scammed a group of people. And So it came to pass that somehow they swallowed the entire stupid tale of the gold plates and the magic rocks and an illiterate man being able to read hieroglyphics except when tested on all of these points he failed. And so it came to pass that the leaders of this group claimed to have a direct line to God and it conveniently meant that their wishes were actually those of Alien being who lives on Kolob and his 1 son but not the other. And so it came to pass that stupid people kept buying into the ridiculous story despite there being not just a lack of evidence for but much evidence against all the stories in the plagiarized book. And so it came to pass that that phrase is used 1297 times in the book of Mormon as opposed to 452 times in the King James Authorised bible.

The men swallowed the bullshit because they were promised multiple young girls to schtup.
The men dragged their wives and children along because women and children had few rights then and couldn't say no.

This to my understanding is entirely correct. Young Mr Smith also had an eye for the laydeez himself and on occasion would take one of his mates daughters on the command and will of God. You see it was very important to the creator of all things that our hero Joe got his leg over with a succession of hotties! Lol

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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30-12-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(29-12-2013 11:53 PM)morondog Wrote:  Alla, have you ever come across Mark Twain's review of the Mormon Bible ? What do you think of it ?
Yes, but I don't remember now everything what he said.
I believe he was Protestant and he didn't like Mormons. But he is still one of my favorite American writers. Smile

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30-12-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(29-12-2013 08:51 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Again, you'd be surprised how many common beliefs Christians have that aren't Biblical and they don't even know it.
Oh, I know that. And this is when they say that all we need to know is in the Bible only.

(29-12-2013 08:51 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  We're not asking citations because we think we'll be converted or because we're just trying to fuck with you; we're asking because we want to make sure what you say you believe has some basis in the religious writings as opposed to something you made up/were told by someone.
I know this. And it is fine with me. But sometimes with certain people I do not want to get into much discussion. I like hard and good questions. I like atheists or theists who want to challenge me. It is more fun. This is one of the reasons why we have these forums - to have some fun.

(29-12-2013 08:51 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  This is more for you than us, really. You should know why you believe what you believe.
I do know why I believe. I know what is the foundation of my faith. Some(or many) people don't know that.

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30-12-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(30-12-2013 01:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 11:53 PM)morondog Wrote:  Alla, have you ever come across Mark Twain's review of the Mormon Bible ? What do you think of it ?
Yes, but I don't remember now everything what he said.
I believe he was Protestant and he didn't like Mormons. But he is still one of my favorite American writers. Smile

I did add a link so you could reread it Wink According to what he wrote it was less of dislike and more of bafflement, as far as I can make out, which is more or less how I feel towards you guys, although I've only met one honest-to-God Mormon in the flesh and she was helluva pretty so I didn't mind Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-12-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(30-12-2013 02:03 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 01:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, but I don't remember now everything what he said.
I believe he was Protestant and he didn't like Mormons. But he is still one of my favorite American writers. Smile

I did add a link so you could reread it Wink According to what he wrote it was less of dislike and more of bafflement, as far as I can make out, which is more or less how I feel towards you guys, although I've only met one honest-to-God Mormon in the flesh and she was helluva pretty so I didn't mind Tongue
Thanks, I will read it and then I will let you know what I think.
But I am not surprised that Mormon women looked very ugly to him. I think their lives were so hard after years of persecutions that they didn't have much time or desire to look better.
Now it is different times. We can pumper ourselves and look sexy(but modestly of course).Smile

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