The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
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04-01-2014, 07:28 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(04-01-2014 03:48 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  But since the understanding of my belief tells me that the God I believe in is no man or person, I am unable to hold that God accountable in the same fashion that I would a human being.
As a believer of a God, in whom I believe has given me faith in a world in which no evidence is found, I am constrained by what I can absolutely state.
If you note in my original reply to you that I apply quotation marks when describing what is good /evil in the context of God. That is my way of acknowledging that I, as the created, understand and accept that the creator is responsible for all toward the creators goal.
This is my belief and understanding.
Which is why I agree that the God I believe in is responsible for all suffering in/on the world. To His good ends.

So this is in no way a "cop out", as my position is the most intellectually honest that can be had by a believer in an unprovable God.

No, you did it again, but you just moved it back a step. You admit that God's actions look evil to us and that he is responsible for suffering, refuse to actually label said actions as "good" or "evil", and then declare their net effect to be good because you say so.

It's the exact same thing I complained about in the last post.
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04-01-2014, 07:47 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(04-01-2014 07:28 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 03:48 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  But since the understanding of my belief tells me that the God I believe in is no man or person, I am unable to hold that God accountable in the same fashion that I would a human being.
As a believer of a God, in whom I believe has given me faith in a world in which no evidence is found, I am constrained by what I can absolutely state.
If you note in my original reply to you that I apply quotation marks when describing what is good /evil in the context of God. That is my way of acknowledging that I, as the created, understand and accept that the creator is responsible for all toward the creators goal.
This is my belief and understanding.
Which is why I agree that the God I believe in is responsible for all suffering in/on the world. To His good ends.

So this is in no way a "cop out", as my position is the most intellectually honest that can be had by a believer in an unprovable God.

No, you did it again, but you just moved it back a step. You admit that God's actions look evil to us and that he is responsible for suffering, refuse to actually label said actions as "good" or "evil", and then declare their net effect to be good because you say so.

It's the exact same thing I complained about in the last post.


Agreed, an unlimited deity has no excuse for committing evil in the name of good. Drinking Beverage

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04-01-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(04-01-2014 07:47 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Agreed, an unlimited deity has no excuse for committing evil in the name of good. Drinking Beverage

Even if you don't give God undisclosed limitations, you can't declare God's actions outside of moral scrutiny and then go on to declare the net effect good. That's double-speak.
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04-01-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: The Christian God incentivizes the wrong things
(04-01-2014 07:28 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  No, you did it again, but you just moved it back a step. You admit that God's actions look evil to us and that he is responsible for suffering, refuse to actually label said actions as "good" or "evil", and then declare their net effect to be good because you say so.

It's the exact same thing I complained about in the last post.
We're talking past each other, mate.
Over and again I specifically claim my stated, "evil v. good" stance for myself. In the context of how I view it.
In no way, shape, or form do I have any expectation that a non believer should see this the way that I do.
I have no problem with a non believer viewing the existence of evil, within the context of those who make proclamations of "truth" or "knowledge" of god, with the expectation that they can "explain" circumstances.

Does this make it more clear?

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. 'Cause sinners are much more fun."- Billy Joel
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