The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
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12-05-2017, 12:37 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 02:27 AM by Cosmo.)
The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
1) If you tell people about Jesus and they believe you, they go to heaven?

Answer is generally yes.

2) If you tell them about Jesus, and they don't believe you, they go to hell?

Answer is generally yes.

3) What happens if they never get the opportunity to hear about Jesus?

Many convoluted answers but most Christians will fall back on a free pass to heaven due to ignorance. There is no correct response to this question. All of them are morally unjust; undeserved excessive reward, or undeserved excessive punishment. So either God is real and less just than humans, and we're all fucked, or there's no personal deity. Unless universalism is true, and we all go to this supposed heavenly realm.

Once they fall back on the general line of reasoning, and say that people who've never heard about Jesus get a free pass to heaven, all that needs to be asked is this...

4) So wouldn't it have been better if you had never said anything?

Any theist that reads these 4 questions, I challenge you to give me a reasonable answer that makes your belief system palatable. I would be happily surprised.

Regards! Smile

(Edited for grammar, punctuation mistakes, and to be more concise. Also, Title is in reference to the 'argument,' if it can even be qualified as such, that Eric Hovind created and that true scotsman referred to. Smile)

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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12-05-2017, 02:21 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
Duplicated during edit* :/

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
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12-05-2017, 05:37 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
[Image: 31309545522_45790d2a7e_z.jpg]

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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12-05-2017, 06:04 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 12:37 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  1) If you tell people about Jesus and they believe you, they go to heaven?

Answer is generally yes.

2) If you tell them about Jesus, and they don't believe you, they go to hell?

Answer is generally yes.

3) What happens if they never get the opportunity to hear about Jesus?

Many convoluted answers but most Christians will fall back on a free pass to heaven due to ignorance. There is no correct response to this question. All of them are morally unjust; undeserved excessive reward, or undeserved excessive punishment. So either God is real and less just than humans, and we're all fucked, or there's no personal deity. Unless universalism is true, and we all go to this supposed heavenly realm.

Once they fall back on the general line of reasoning, and say that people who've never heard about Jesus get a free pass to heaven, all that needs to be asked is this...

4) So wouldn't it have been better if you had never said anything?

Any theist that reads these 4 questions, I challenge you to give me a reasonable answer that makes your belief system palatable. I would be happily surprised.

Regards! Smile

(Edited for grammar, punctuation mistakes, and to be more concise. Also, Title is in reference to the 'argument,' if it can even be qualified as such, that Eric Hovind created and that true scotsman referred to. Smile)

I don't actually see how these questions do any damage to the Christian worldview. It's not supposed to be palatable. It's supposed to be true. Address Christians on that claim of truth and you'll be more productive.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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12-05-2017, 06:18 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
Belief is a stupid metric for salvation. What an OB. VI. OUS. goddamn tactic. This narrative simply can not withstand the test of the internet age.
I've heard so many of the Christians at my old church start waffling on the issue of "belief" with regard to the doctrines of heaven and hell. It's like they already know how they feel about it, but they're just afraid to say it.

When confronted with the fact that other religions exist, including non-theistic religions, they just sort of pass it off like "oh yeah, I'm sure God loves the Buddhists enough to save the good ones, too. he must, because his love is perfect. He IS love! Oh, isn't that so beautiful and poetic? I just made an analogy! Wow, I'm starting to tear up now just thinking about how satisfying that analogy was. That must be the spuurit workin' in me. Oh praisehim lawdypraiiise!"

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12-05-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 06:18 AM)cactus Wrote:  Belief is a stupid metric for salvation. What an OB. VI. OUS. goddamn tactic. This narrative simply can not withstand the test of the internet age.
I've heard so many of the Christians at my old church start waffling on the issue of "belief" with regard to the doctrines of heaven and hell. It's like they already know how they feel about it, but they're just afraid to say it.

When confronted with the fact that other religions exist, including non-theistic religions, they just sort of pass it off like "oh yeah, I'm sure God loves the Buddhists enough to save the good ones, too. he must, because his love is perfect. He IS love! Oh, isn't that so beautiful and poetic? I just made an analogy! Wow, I'm starting to tear up now just thinking about how satisfying that analogy was. That must be the spuurit workin' in me. Oh praisehim lawdypraiiise!"

Christians don't claim God will save any Buddhists.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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12-05-2017, 08:28 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 08:25 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Christians don't claim God will save any Buddhists.

The more progressive ones will go back and forth on the issue, I've noticed.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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12-05-2017, 08:29 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 08:25 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 06:18 AM)cactus Wrote:  Belief is a stupid metric for salvation. What an OB. VI. OUS. goddamn tactic. This narrative simply can not withstand the test of the internet age.
I've heard so many of the Christians at my old church start waffling on the issue of "belief" with regard to the doctrines of heaven and hell. It's like they already know how they feel about it, but they're just afraid to say it.

When confronted with the fact that other religions exist, including non-theistic religions, they just sort of pass it off like "oh yeah, I'm sure God loves the Buddhists enough to save the good ones, too. he must, because his love is perfect. He IS love! Oh, isn't that so beautiful and poetic? I just made an analogy! Wow, I'm starting to tear up now just thinking about how satisfying that analogy was. That must be the spuurit workin' in me. Oh praisehim lawdypraiiise!"

Christians don't claim God will save any Buddhists.

Most sects don't, but some sects do:

Christian Universalism

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-05-2017, 09:22 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 05:37 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  [Image: 31309545522_45790d2a7e_z.jpg]

Because the people who do know are commanded (er, commissioned) to tell those who don't know and they do that to avoid going to hell. That way, the newly-told people have to then believe and tell others to avoid going...

.... wow. YET ANOTHER WAY in which religion is like a pyramid scheme.
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12-05-2017, 10:29 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 08:28 AM)cactus Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:25 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Christians don't claim God will save any Buddhists.

The more progressive ones will go back and forth on the issue, I've noticed.

Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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