The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
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12-05-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
Some Christians will say that those who are ignorant don't go to either Heaven or Hell but some purgatory which is simply eternal existence absent the presence of god - in other words my idea of paradise!

Some Christians will say that the Christian "lifestyle" with it's "morals" is worth living even without any afterlife - some foolishly believe they're actually helping things here on earth with all this bullshit!
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12-05-2017, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 10:49 AM by Cosmo.)
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
Quote:I don't actually see how these questions do any damage to the Christian worldview. It's not supposed to be palatable. It's supposed to be true. Address Christians on that claim of truth and you'll be more productive.

By palatable I meant, reasonable, logical, not contradicting itself, and not self-refuting, so as to potentially be, as you said, true.

That's actually interesting to me. To each their own, though. This argument was the nail in the coffin in terms of my faith. It eroded the entire salvation schema for me. Christian salvation is a logically self defeating idea. Since the entire religion is based on salvation by grace through faith, I stopped believing in Jesus' great commission, and consequently, finally, stopped believing in my watered down version of Christianity.

Quote:Belief is a stupid metric for salvation. What an OB. VI. OUS. goddamn tactic. This narrative simply can not withstand the test of the internet age.
I've heard so many of the Christians at my old church start waffling on the issue of "belief" with regard to the doctrines of heaven and hell. It's like they already know how they feel about it, but they're just afraid to say it.

When confronted with the fact that other religions exist, including non-theistic religions, they just sort of pass it off like "oh yeah, I'm sure God loves the Buddhists enough to save the good ones, too. he must, because his love is perfect. He IS love! Oh, isn't that so beautiful and poetic? I just made an analogy! Wow, I'm starting to tear up now just thinking about how satisfying that analogy was. That must be the spuurit workin' in me. Oh praisehim lawdypraiiise!"

I know I'm feeling the spirit... Smile





But yeah it absolutely is 100% a scare tactic to assert control over other religions. I'm just grateful the idea of hell ended up in the bible because that was when I first started realizing that the bible is lies. Took a long time after that to actually leave though.

Quote:Most sects don't, but some sects do:

Christian Universalism

That's what I was before I stopped being a Christian.

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12-05-2017, 10:45 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 10:53 AM by Cosmo.)
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
Quote:Some Christians will say that those who are ignorant don't go to either Heaven or Hell but some purgatory which is simply eternal existence absent the presence of god - in other words my idea of paradise!

I actually have heard about this belief system. I still think the punishment outweighs the crime though. Existence without God is okay, but all of these Christians seem to get this massive gift based simply on their ability to believe something that makes absolutely no sense.

And even still, the punishment for saying 'no, that doesn't make sense,' far outweighs the perceived spiritual criminality of the action. Why is belief the one metric by which salvation is actually attained or not?

Quote:Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

If you're going to elaborate on at least one of your points, I think this would be a good one. What do you mean?

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12-05-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 10:29 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

A lot of things are incompatible with being Christian, but the Christians themselves don't seem to notice.

Hobo
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12-05-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
^

Precisely.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
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12-05-2017, 11:18 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 11:21 AM by cactus.)
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 10:29 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

Yeah, well... people don't like to think very hard about their beliefs. Some people consider introspection to be an obstacle rather than a goal. Undecided

Christianity is also not monolithic, so don't get too specific with your definitions. lol
Categories require compromise. Terminology is a form of approximation.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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12-05-2017, 01:33 PM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 10:45 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  
Quote:Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

If you're going to elaborate on at least one of your points, I think this would be a good one. What do you mean?

I mean progressivism and Christian doctrine are incompatible. They are contradictory ideologies that stem from opposing worldviews. I didn't think that needed elaboration. And brevity is the soul of wit.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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12-05-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 11:18 AM)cactus Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 10:29 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

Yeah, well... people don't like to think very hard about their beliefs. Some people consider introspection to be an obstacle rather than a goal. Undecided

Christianity is also not monolithic, so don't get too specific with your definitions. lol
Categories require compromise. Terminology is a form of approximation.

That's a fair statement. Classification isn't concrete. But I do find it laughable when someone claims they're a Christian, but they reject most or all of the OT. I think that's at a point where you can't be reasonable called a Christian anymore.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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12-05-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
(12-05-2017 11:00 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 10:29 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Being progressive is incompatible with being Christian.

A lot of things are incompatible with being Christian, but the Christians themselves don't seem to notice.

Hobo

People within the Christian culture don't seem to notice. But I would be weary of labeling all of them as Christians.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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12-05-2017, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 02:06 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: The Christian Worlview Destroyed in 4 Questions
Quote:I mean progressivism and Christian doctrine are incompatible. They are contradictory ideologies that stem from opposing worldviews. I didn't think that needed elaboration.

Well I mean many Christians still advocate for social reform in lots of different areas so it seems someone can still be progressive while being Christian. Thoreauvian put it well enough. (Edited In) Who are you to decide which doctrines Christians can and can't believe? If they believe Jesus is the Messiah, and that they're saved by grace through faith... they're likely a Christian. Christianity is cosmopolitan in its secondary doctrines. That's why there are so many denominations. They're all rooted around the one idea that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and that they can experience grace through faith by believing in that and living according to it.

And If the OT is so valuable to Christianity, why do they spend so much time not teaching from it, and deliberately skipping over the nasty bits? (Done)

Quote:And brevity is the soul of wit.

If that was brevity then it's also the soul of viewpoints that can be dismissed out right.

And then his random one-liner assertion disappeared back into the cloud of speculation from which it came.

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