The Christian delusion
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08-04-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  By right, do you mean Republican???
Laugh out load
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  As Fat' said, all variations of xian consider themselves to be correct. Most have never read the bible either.
But the right Christians give ANY answer to ANY question Big Grin
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  True. One is real. The other fictional.
One - we know is real, the other - we either believe revelations or we don't.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You have verifiable proof of this statement? Or are you just making it up, like a fable?
this is a question of faith.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  How can a mortal kill an immortal anyway?
Mortal can not kill immortal.
Spirit is immortal, not mortal physical body flesh, bones and BLOOD.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  God is the father son and holy ghost. So Jebus is god. Which means he did not die, Simply went home for a few days then came back.
His spirit(spiritual body) did not die.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You, my dear Alla, are touched. By what, I don't know. Shocking Blink
I can help you to know: by God the Holy Ghost. Yes

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08-04-2016, 05:05 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 04:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  By right, do you mean Republican???
Laugh out load
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  As Fat' said, all variations of xian consider themselves to be correct. Most have never read the bible either.
But the right Christians give ANY answer to ANY question Big Grin
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  True. One is real. The other fictional.
One - we know is real, the other - we either believe revelations or we don't.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You have verifiable proof of this statement? Or are you just making it up, like a fable?
this is a question of faith.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  How can a mortal kill an immortal anyway?
Mortal can not kill immortal.
Spirit is immortal, not mortal physical body flesh, bones and BLOOD.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  God is the father son and holy ghost. So Jebus is god. Which means he did not die, Simply went home for a few days then came back.
His spirit(spiritual body) did not die.
(08-04-2016 06:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You, my dear Alla, are touched. By what, I don't know. Shocking Blink
I can help you to know: by God the Holy Ghost. Yes

Thanks for proving every point I made Alla.
Cheers. D.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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08-04-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 05:05 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Thanks for proving every point I made Alla.
Cheers. D.
welcome Smile

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08-04-2016, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2016 12:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Christian delusion
(07-04-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  God restored dead physical body of Christ (Gods know how to organize and to re-organize physical elements). Spirit is that mechanism that makes flesh and bones move(live).

Here's my problem. Someone went to an awful lot of trouble to "restore dead physical body of Christ (Gods know how to organize and to re-organize physical elements)". How come zombie Jesus only lasted like 20 minutes and then poof was gone again? Why didn't zombie just go walkabout and end up in a bowling alley with the dude when he was going by the name Donny? And I don't buy that shit about preparing a place for me, I already know Bob got people for that.

If I knew the way, I would take you home.





That path is for your steps alone.

#sigh
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08-04-2016, 05:59 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 05:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-04-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  God restored dead physical body of Christ (Gods know how to organize and to re-organize physical elements). Spirit is that mechanism that makes flesh and bones move(live).

Here's my problem. Someone went to an awful lot of trouble to "restore dead physical body of Christ (Gods know how to organize and to re-organize physical elements)". How come zombie Jesus only lasted like 20 minutes and then poof was gone again? Why didn't dude just go walkabout? And I don't buy that shit about preparing a room for me, I already know Bob got people for that.

Someone also went to a lot of trouble writing the story so Jesus would fit the (mistranslated) Old Testament too.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-04-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: The Christian delusion



#sigh
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08-04-2016, 06:14 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  True. But there is the difference: They don't have an answer to this question. We do
Again, that's what all christians (and all religious, for that matter) say.

It all comes down to faith. I reject faith. I demand evidence.

(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  Some testify/testified that both(immortality and spirit) has been evidenced. That is why you either believe them or you don't believe them. I believe their testimony.
That is entirely your right to do so. I have been researching this for almost five years now. The testimony I have seen has led to my atheism.

(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 05:36 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  You cannot atone for another person's sins.
Why not? Explain, please. What does it mean: to atone for another person sins according to the scriptures?
if I have a debt can someone who has money and who loves me pay it for me so I don't have go to jail?

To answer your first part: According to christian teachings christ died to pay for our sins. Essentially a scapegoat. A blood sacrifice. He suffered and died so that we would be welcome in heaven. This is what I was taught as a catholic.

A definition:
Quote:Atone
verb (used without object), atoned, atoning.
1. to make amends or reparation, as for an offense or a crime, or for an offender
2. to make amends for; expiate

To answer your example: Ted kills Ben. Ted is arrested. Don confesses to the murder. The police believe him. Don goes to jail and Ted remains free.
Don has paid the price for Ted's crime. Ben, of course, remains dead.

Don paid the price, willingly.
But did he atone?
Did he absolve Ted of guilt?
Did he absolve Ted of responsibility?

Don's actions cannot change what happened. Nothing can change the past.
By allowing Don to suffer for his crime, Ted is now doubly guilty.

What about Ben? Would Ben want his murderer to go free and another be punished? Highly unlikely. Would you?

If you wrong someone, the only person that can forgive you is the person or people you've hurt. Even then, true atonement, expiation of guilt, may not be possible.

Another example:
Someone wrongs you, very badly. You cannot make yourself forgive them. The pain is too great, the hurt too grievous. According to christian doctrine, if they repent, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, the sin is on you.

Is that justice? Is that ethical?

I say, no.

(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 05:36 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  You cannot sacrifice yourself, to yourself, to loophole the laws of sacrifice that you created.
I agree. Who is saying/teaching this any way?
If you do not believe in the doctrine of the trinity then my comment would not apply. If jesus, god and the trinity are all one entity, then the sacrifice of jesus to god would not make sense.

(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  spirit is immortal, spirit doesn't die. But immortal spirit can temporarily dwell in mortal physical body.
If you believe in spirits then I suppose that would apply.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-04-2016, 08:14 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  It all comes down to faith. I reject faith. I demand evidence.
Why do you reject faith and demand evidence? I mean, there is nothing wrong with demanding evidence, but what is wrong with having faith according to you?
(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  That is entirely your right to do so. I have been researching this for almost five years now. The testimony I have seen has led to my atheism.
What testimony have you seen that led you to your atheism?
(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  Why not? Explain, please. What does it mean: to atone for another person sins according to the scriptures?
if I have a debt can someone who has money and who loves me pay it for me so I don't have go to jail?
To answer your first part: According to christian teachings christ died to pay for our sins. Essentially a scapegoat. A blood sacrifice. He suffered and died so that we would be welcome in heaven. This is what I was taught as a catholic.
I asked " according to the scriptures" not catholic doctrine.
He died because some people wanted to kill Him, so he was killed. But in order to pay for the sins of others someone doesn't have to die. There is no claim(revelation) in the scriptures that to pay for sins of others = to be killed/to die.
(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  To answer your example: Ted kills Ben. Ted is arrested. Don confesses to the murder. The police believe him. Don goes to jail and Ted remains free.
Don has paid the price for Ted's crime. Ben, of course, remains dead.

Don paid the price, willingly.
But did he atone?
Did he absolve Ted of guilt?
Did he absolve Ted of responsibility?

Don's actions cannot change what happened. Nothing can change the past.
By allowing Don to suffer for his crime, Ted is now doubly guilty.

What about Ben? Would Ben want his murderer to go free and another be punished? Highly unlikely. Would you?
This is not what infinite atonement of Christ FOR SINS means. Not even close.
This not what "taking sins of others upon yourself" means.

(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Another example:
Someone wrongs you, very badly. You cannot make yourself forgive them. The pain is too great, the hurt too grievous. According to christian doctrine, if they repent, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, the sin is on you.
To wrong me = to sin or to break the law of God. Not forgive those who wrong me = to sin or to break law of God. If they repent of their sin they are free from this sin. If I repent of my sin(pride and that is why I don't forgive) I will be free from this sin.
The same law for all - REPENT of your own sins whatever they are.
If I don't learn to forgive I will not learn to be like God. This is the point of God's laws - to learn to be like Him/Them.
(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Is that justice? Is that ethical?
I say, no.
Yes, it is justice - if I break the law(I don't overcome my pride and thus I won't be able to forgive) and I don't repent I will not be forgiven.

(08-04-2016 06:14 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  If you do not believe in the doctrine of the trinity then my comment would not apply. If jesus, god and the trinity are all one entity, then the sacrifice of jesus to god would not make sense.
I agree with you. BTW biblical prophets(the Scriptures) never taught this.

(08-04-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  spirit is immortal, spirit doesn't die. But immortal spirit can temporarily dwell in mortal physical body.
If you believe in spirits then I suppose that would apply.
Of course, only if you believe in spirits.

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08-04-2016, 08:34 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(07-04-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  Restored and resurrected physical body doesn't have any wounds.

So, then the scripture writers that said "Doubting Thomas" put his finger "in the wounds" (of the resurrected Jebus) were liars ?
"Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." John 20:27

Alrighty then.

Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-04-2016, 08:58 PM
RE: The Christian delusion
(08-04-2016 08:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-04-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  Restored and resurrected physical body doesn't have any wounds.

So, then the scripture writers that said "Doubting Thomas" put his finger "in the wounds" (of the resurrected Jebus) were liars ?
"Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." John 20:27

Alrighty then.

Facepalm
no, they were not liars. Have you ever heard about Carbonaro effect?
Jesus is even better than Carbonaro Wink

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