The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
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30-06-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(30-06-2015 12:26 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  To be fair to your teacher --- that's just what he/she was told.

I posted this on a different thread - but it applies here ---

The government of the south was run (as today's government is) by people with money -- i.e. plantation owners, who owned slaves. They did not fight the war - they sat home and drank mint juleps.......

The war was fought on the part of the south -- mostly by common men who did NOT own slaves. If they'd been told the war was over slavery - they likely would have given it a hearty "fuck you" and not wanted to fight.

So -- the government of the south convinced the common guy that the war was over "state's rights"....

And they told their kids, and their kids, ect.......

I don't think it had much of anything to do with the soldiers of the time being convinced it was about something else (it isn't like the Declaration of Secession hides that it is about slavery) but more so to do with racism and the fact that the history books white-washed the reasons and the racism for generations.

Or to put it another way, it was a commonly held belief in the country at the time that slavery was a good thing for society and a good thing for Africans (something I still hear people say today), partially because they viewed Africa as "the Dark Continent" and that they thought they were helping the slaves by bringing them to a more "civilized" country.

Gone with the Wind (1933) seems to sum up the attitudes well
"The former field hands found themselves suddenly elevated to the seats of the mighty. There they conducted themselves as creatures of small intelligence might naturally be expected to do. Like monkeys or small children turned loose among treasured objects whose value is beyond their comprehension, they ran wild - either from perverse pleasure in destruction or simply because of their ignorance."

You're correct -- except that the average Joe likely never saw any of the letters of Secession -- and if they did - it was probably past their reading comprehension. Illiteracy rates among the poor were much higher than they are today.

Like today -- too many people's opinions are formed for them, from the top, down....

.......................................

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30-06-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
Wars are always about many different issues, as that's what it takes to have enough support to get more than one small fringe group onboard. People just like to oversimplify it, especially after it's over and they win.

Slavery was certainly an issue that contributed to the division of the country, but I agree that slavery alone was not the sole cause of the war. It's never that simple. It's just easier to view things in black and white. Good vs. evil.

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30-06-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:38 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(30-06-2015 12:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't think it had much of anything to do with the soldiers of the time being convinced it was about something else (it isn't like the Declaration of Secession hides that it is about slavery) but more so to do with racism and the fact that the history books white-washed the reasons and the racism for generations.

Or to put it another way, it was a commonly held belief in the country at the time that slavery was a good thing for society and a good thing for Africans (something I still hear people say today), partially because they viewed Africa as "the Dark Continent" and that they thought they were helping the slaves by bringing them to a more "civilized" country.

Gone with the Wind (1933) seems to sum up the attitudes well
"The former field hands found themselves suddenly elevated to the seats of the mighty. There they conducted themselves as creatures of small intelligence might naturally be expected to do. Like monkeys or small children turned loose among treasured objects whose value is beyond their comprehension, they ran wild - either from perverse pleasure in destruction or simply because of their ignorance."

You're correct -- except that the average Joe likely never saw any of the letters of Secession -- and if they did - it was probably past their reading comprehension. Illiteracy rates among the poor were much higher than they are today.

Like today -- too many people's opinions are formed for them, from the top, down....

That is something else Loewen mentions, that the values and ideas of the rich, are probably the only thing to trickle down into the lower classes.

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30-06-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:39 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Wars are always about many different issues, as that's what it takes to have enough support to get more than one small fringe group onboard. People just like to oversimplify it, especially after it's over and they win.

Slavery was certainly an issue that contributed to the division of the country, but I agree that slavery alone was not the sole cause of the war. It's never that simple. It's just easier to view things in black and white. Good vs. evil.

Slavery was the central issue founded in racist ideologies and conflicting responses to all people being "created equal."

The south wanted to keep its slaves, but it also wanted to enforce its view of the federal government on the North. The South wanted a "tyrannical" federal government, just like they accused the North of but they wanted the exact opposite the North wanted.

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30-06-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(30-06-2015 12:38 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're correct -- except that the average Joe likely never saw any of the letters of Secession -- and if they did - it was probably past their reading comprehension. Illiteracy rates among the poor were much higher than they are today.

Like today -- too many people's opinions are formed for them, from the top, down....

That is something else Loewen mentions, that the values and ideas of the rich, are probably the only thing to trickle down into the lower classes.

You mean Ronny Raygun wasn't right and the money doesn't trickle down too???


Gasp

Shocking, absolutely shocking...

.......................................

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30-06-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:47 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(30-06-2015 12:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That is something else Loewen mentions, that the values and ideas of the rich, are probably the only thing to trickle down into the lower classes.

You mean Ronny Raygun wasn't right and the money doesn't trickle down too???


Gasp

Shocking, absolutely shocking...

He was too busy trickling weapons down to the Taliban (or Al Qaeda? I don't remember now) to factcheck his economic policies

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30-06-2015, 12:59 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
The Civil War, Part 1: Crash Course US History





The Civil War, Part 2: Crash Course US History




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30-06-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:59 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  The Civil War, Part 1: Crash Course US History





The Civil War, Part 2: Crash Course US History




I'll have to watch these when I get home since I don't have my headphones.

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30-06-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
Complex issues generally have more than one cause.

The rank and file was sold a lot of 'state's rights' hooey by the propertied classes who, of course, did favor slavery as they were the primary slave holders.

If you take the time to read the diaries and songs of soldiers on both sides there was precious little talk of slavery one way or the other. One I would particularly recommend is "Company Aytch" by Sam Watkins. Interesting stuff.

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30-06-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(30-06-2015 12:35 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I was taught the civil war was more about economics.

Of course it was in an economics class where that was said. The view could be slanted. Tongue

I had one teacher in high school who was very anti-government.

I'm sure today, if they are still teacher, would be telling the class 9-11 was a government conspiracy or some shit. Back in school they told the class that Roosevelt knew about the attacks on Pearl Harbor weeks before they happened. They weren't happy when I spent a night in the library looking at information that totally debunked all that. In fact I think during that unit I got a "d".

Quote:I was taught the civil war was more about economics.

As I ranted away in my post above (sorry about that folks :blushSmile it was an economy based on having and keeping slavery alive and well.

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