The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
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02-07-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
Am I the only one that remembers being taught both? I learned that slavery was a big part of it but also that the southern states didn't want to be dictated to. I was also taught that while Lincoln was instrumental in emancipation, freeing slaves was not as important as preserving the union.
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02-07-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(02-07-2015 01:50 PM)ThatAtheistChick Wrote:  My husband and I just had a lengthy conversation about this. He was taught it was about states rights. I was taught it was about slavery. We were both taught the truth. It all depends on your perspective.

Only if you ignore that the "states rights" argument is BS and the economic policies the southern states were trying to preserve was one based on the racist system of slavery.

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02-07-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(02-07-2015 02:07 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Am I the only one that remembers being taught both? I learned that slavery was a big part of it but also that the southern states didn't want to be dictated to. I was also taught that while Lincoln was instrumental in emancipation, freeing slaves was not as important as preserving the union.
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I don't know, but it wasn't what I was taught.

And the notion that the southern states "didn't want to be dictated to" is only half correct, they didn't want to be dictated to, but they wanted to dictate what the other states could and couldn't do.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-07-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(02-07-2015 02:25 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't know, but it wasn't what I was taught.

And the notion that the southern states "didn't want to be dictated to" is only half correct, they didn't want to be dictated to, but they wanted to dictate what the other states could and couldn't do.

No argument from me, I was greatly oversimplifying. My only point was that I remember hearing a much more nuanced version of history than many others here apparently were.

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02-07-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(02-07-2015 02:07 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Am I the only one that remembers being taught both? I learned that slavery was a big part of it but also that the southern states didn't want to be dictated to. I was also taught that while Lincoln was instrumental in emancipation, freeing slaves was not as important as preserving the union.
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A majority of schools in the US (K-12), whether public or private, gloss over the nuances involved in an honest examination of history. The frequent changes to textbooks are not typically done to add new information, but to remove the subject matter that doesn't fit the intended narrative (revisionist history). Most children won't grow up with a thirst for knowledge, unless their parents instill it in them.
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03-07-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(02-07-2015 02:21 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-07-2015 01:50 PM)ThatAtheistChick Wrote:  My husband and I just had a lengthy conversation about this. He was taught it was about states rights. I was taught it was about slavery. We were both taught the truth. It all depends on your perspective.

Only if you ignore that the "states rights" argument is BS and the economic policies the southern states were trying to preserve was one based on the racist system of slavery.
It all depends on your perspective. If you look at it from the perspective of the South, they were pissed that the North was ignoring the part of the Constitution that gave them the right to have slaves.

The North was fighting for human rights. The South was fighting for states rights.

I'm not saying the South was right. My point is that the first rule of debate is to understand the position of the opponent. (At least it should be.)

This is not a simplistic issue. The Constitution as written at that time granted the right to own slaves and the right to get them back from another state if they ran off. Under the Constitution, the South was right. Morally, however, the South was wrong.
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03-07-2015, 08:05 AM
The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(03-07-2015 07:54 AM)ThatAtheistChick Wrote:  
(02-07-2015 02:21 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Only if you ignore that the "states rights" argument is BS and the economic policies the southern states were trying to preserve was one based on the racist system of slavery.
It all depends on your perspective. If you look at it from the perspective of the South, they were pissed that the North was ignoring the part of the Constitution that gave them the right to have slaves.

The North was fighting for human rights. The South was fighting for states rights.

I'm not saying the South was right. My point is that the first rule of debate is to understand the position of the opponent. (At least it should be.)

This is not a simplistic issue. The Constitution as written at that time granted the right to own slaves and the right to get them back from another state if they ran off. Under the Constitution, the South was right. Morally, however, the South was wrong.

Except the southern states weren't mad at the federal government or federal laws, they were mad about the individual state laws other states were writing (and as someone else pointed out, the south also made it impossible for the other southern states to decide for themselves on slavery)

So they weren't fighting for state's right, they were fighting to have southern state's rights adopted by other states.

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03-07-2015, 08:36 AM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
Yes, the argument that they were fighting for states' rights is given the lie by their own Constitution. They may have asserted they were fighting for states' rights, but that is not an honest assertion when their own Constitution denied states the right to decide for themselves on the one issue that was dividing the union. With that, it is clear that the states' rights argument was and is a fig leaf offered up to avoid having to defend the indefensible.
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03-07-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(02-07-2015 02:07 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Am I the only one that remembers being taught both? I learned that slavery was a big part of it but also that the southern states didn't want to be dictated to. I was also taught that while Lincoln was instrumental in emancipation, freeing slaves was not as important as preserving the union.
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I felt I got a relatively objective view presented to me in school, at least as objective as is realistically possible within the context of a watered down public education.

I read a book called Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln. It's a well researched book that provides some insight on the politics of the era, including but not limited to Lincoln's stake in the civil war I'd highly suggest it to anyone interested, though it's pretty long so I wouldn't suggest it to anyone not interested Tongue

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03-07-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: The Civil War was about States' Rights, not slavery
(03-07-2015 08:36 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Yes, the argument that they were fighting for states' rights is given the lie by their own Constitution. They may have asserted they were fighting for states' rights, but that is not an honest assertion when their own Constitution denied states the right to decide for themselves on the one issue that was dividing the union. With that, it is clear that the states' rights argument was and is a fig leaf offered up to avoid having to defend the indefensible.

I give you, The United States Constitution, Article 4, Section 2.

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charter...cript.html
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