The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
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19-11-2013, 08:16 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2013 08:59 PM by IndianAtheist.)
The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
There is a lot wrong with the "Concept of God" itself and i wanted to shed some light into that.

Omnipotence/Omniscience Paradox.
If God is Omnipotent can it make something so strong that can overpower itself ?? if it cannot then God's not omnipotent if it can he still isn't.

Well technically...possibilities are infinite so its literally and logically impossible to know everything thus omniscience is impossible.

Creator paradox
If God is the creator then how was he created ? it is also logically&literally impossible for something to have just existed forever in one temporal state,everything we see is just atoms and molecules which is rapidly moving,logic of time&space doesn't permit anything to exist like that especially forever and what is God made of anyway?

And if God did Create everything then that would literally mean that he created parasites,viruses and simply everything that is wrong with the world.

The excuse of "Supernatural" just sounds like a cop out at this point when we have so much understanding of the universe around us and what kind of sick depraved fu*k would design a parasite anyway?

Why does God possess emotions or feelings to begin with ?
Emotions and feelings are merely stimuli required only for the survival of a species hence it completely invalidates the fact that God would have emotions or feelings even though God is CLEARLY NOT "Surviving" anything so he shouldn't feel anything.

It is proven that plants/fungi don't have emotions or feelings because their survival doesn't depend on that so why would a God who is spaceless&timeless(another logical paradox)have them ?

Assuming that God is capable of emotions why is he so "Angry" or dare i say "Psychopathic" ?

Shouldn't he be indifferent to his creations ? what reason does he have to pick a sect of people to "Worship" him ? the creator of the universe wants a mere sect of an already tiny fraction of life to worship him ? for what purpose ? and for that matter why does he have morals ? morals were only developed because our social species needed them to cooperate and survive and GOD clearly doesn't survive therefore he doesn't have morals or rules.

If we are given an anthill do we start killing everyone of them if they accidentally bite us ?

No we know better than those innocent creatures and we care enough to not kill them,we understand their nature and we just want to see them flourish but it seems like God doesn't want us to "Flourish" instead he makes demands from us and wants some serious recognition otherwise he gets mad like WTF ?

Why does he punish us for the way he made us like,shouldn't he understand our nature like we understand the ant's nature to bite ? we kill because its our ingrained survivalistic instinct to do so and that can be clearly seen in other animals too,would you strangle a cat for eating a cute little bird ?

No its just the Cat's nature to do so and i perfectly understand it and i have no contempt or reason to punish cat for its nature if anything God is the sole reason why Life is unfair and why we have kill each other to survive,heck we've seen a lion trying to protect a deer calf that proves that lions are just like us bound by nature to kill regardless of how much we don't want to.

Why does he make an afterlife solely for punishing us for what we are ? its so psychopathic i can't even wrap my head around it,how can someone consider God "All lowing" when he gleefully torments people is beyond me.

God Having an "Authority" over everything

How exactly does he have authority over us and our lives ? who gave him that rights ? "Owning" anything is simply a concept made by humans we can't "Own" a meteor as its considered a "Space property".

and why does he bother with stuff like who believes in him or not ? and why does he take offense if they don't believe in him ? he should understand that humans are incapable of that and leave them be or do what's appropriate not make them kill each other.

Why doesn't he just go ahead and give his non-believing little creature a little hug ? wouldn't that what an "All loving" god would do ? instead we have God ordering a sect of people to kill another sect of people(This is universal in ALL RELIGIONS except maybe Buddhism idk it still came from Hinduism so....)

In bible we see God Flooding the entire earth and ordering men to do genocide and slavery because they don't "Believe" or do what he "wants"

It seems like its not God who should have anything against believers or non-believers its just OUR animalistic instincts which is just waiting for a moral loophole(A.K.A Moral Justification)for doing immoral stuff like rape,killing and robbing.. and that's precisely what they did !

Hilter overcame his "moral barrier" by simply convincing himself that God is on his side and his race/country is morally superior.

Why did we invade other kingdom and rape all the women ?.. because GOD ALLOWS WANTS US TO! Problem solved!

If a little child doesn't like me i just go ahead and give that child a hug instead God floods the whole earth just because his children don't believe in him(happens both in Hinduism&Christianity idk about Islam)

NOT to mention he made a biased afterlife.

God seems like an insecure 16 yr old girl on the rag not an almighty God who lays back and watches stuff happen from a purely objective view taking rational and highly precise actions.

GOD only shows up when the humanity is the most primitive ?

Why are the so called "revelations" only made in the darkest ages of humanity when no one could possibly even comprehend what is a disease ?

If Creator GOD REALLY exists why the fu*k isn't he showing up now!? isn't this the ripest age for a God to show up and properly introduce himself ?

Why did God choose to show his "miracles" to primitive people who had less knowledge about the everything doesn't that mean he prefers stupidity ?

Wouldn't it make sense for an "All perfect" God to just wait for humans to fully realize the world they're living in and THEN show up ?? wouldn't that make more sense ?

Hardcore believers say that i can't "Prove" God doesn't exist but it seems like the concept of God disproves itself,like a square circle God simply cannot exist,it seems like the concept of God is nothing but a really big scam/delusion which was made in order to control people and convince them that there is a purpose to unnecessary suffering which was kinda necessary at that time because the life expectancy was like 30 years.

[Image: science-vs-religion-science-vs-religion-...219649.jpg](i just really wanted to post this its just so funny)

So what do guys think ? do you people think that there is something more wrong with the concept or God or is it somewhat feasible in some kind of broken logic?

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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19-11-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and our Common sense
Very good post, I especially like the one about God only showing up to primitive humans, so true.Yes
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19-11-2013, 08:27 PM
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and our Common sense
I think you are - forgive my expression - preaching to the choir, my friend Big Grin

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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19-11-2013, 08:50 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2013 08:55 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and our Common sense
(19-11-2013 08:27 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I think you are - forgive my expression - preaching to the choir, my friend Big Grin
I know,i just realized that the concept of God is a literal&logical impossibility regardless of the fairy tales associated with it.

Its not logically possible,all theists need to gather around and re-define the word 'God" and remove logical fallacies like omniscience,omnipotence and especially "All loving".

Otherwise the popular belief of God is merely a logical paradox.. not even wishful thinking next time if ANY theist pesters me about God i'll simply tell him common sense says otherwise.

I don't even have to touch science,i merely need common sense that something like a square circle doesn't exist or something like a "Black light" doesn't and cannot exist.

Idk why anyone should be an agnostic when God concept is such a paradox sandwich,i know for certain that God doesn't.
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20-11-2013, 01:47 AM
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
To be fair, you always have to be careful with 'common sense'. Why? Because it's very often not so common, and it is a terrible means of gauging what is true. Just take a look at modern physics and cosmology, there is a lot there that defies common sense but is still true to the best that our science allows us to test it.

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20-11-2013, 11:03 AM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2013 11:44 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
(20-11-2013 01:47 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  To be fair, you always have to be careful with 'common sense'. Why? Because it's very often not so common, and it is a terrible means of gauging what is true. Just take a look at modern physics and cosmology, there is a lot there that defies common sense but is still true to the best that our science allows us to test it.
Define "Truth" as far as i know there is no such thing as absolute truth only things which are "Close to truth".

I used "Common sense" because i didn't want to claim it to be the ultimate truth or fact but rather then are things we know for certain is impossible like a dark light or and omnipotence or omniscience and plus omniscience&omnipotence also contradicts with "Free will".

If God is Omniscient and not omnipotent then we can say that God may exist but if with daisy chain them together we'd have a God who knows every possibility EVER (which is impossible because possibilities are infinite)and has the infinite power(which is also impossible considering infinity kinda grants you the power to do anything&everything) AND gives us "Free will" even though from God's POV everyone's life is pre-determined because knows everyone's life even before they're born.

SO THAT MEANS GOD HAD ALL THE POWER TO STOP WW2 and yet he didn't why ?? don't know maybe hitler was with God i guess ?

He totally floods the earth when people don't believe in him but when the whole world is having a blood orgy he doesn't care ?

So Either God is Only Omniscience or Omnipotent.

This video shows the main problem with the paradox related with the "God" concept.




Its okay to believe in a divine being to exist though,as an atheist i personally believe that a higher power does indeed exist but it is not God.

EDIT: Okay if the stone example is far-fetched then how about this one ?

A medieval arms salesman boasted that his sword was so sharp that it could penetrate any armor, and his shield was so tough that it could withstand any attack. A member of the crowd called out, "What happens when you strike your sword against your own shield?" The salesman was stumped.

This is a more logical example to prove why omnipotence is impossible by definition.
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21-11-2013, 04:22 AM
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
(20-11-2013 11:03 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 01:47 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  To be fair, you always have to be careful with 'common sense'. Why? Because it's very often not so common, and it is a terrible means of gauging what is true. Just take a look at modern physics and cosmology, there is a lot there that defies common sense but is still true to the best that our science allows us to test it.
Define "Truth" as far as i know there is no such thing as absolute truth only things which are "Close to truth".

I used "Common sense" because i didn't want to claim it to be the ultimate truth or fact but rather then are things we know for certain is impossible like a dark light or and omnipotence or omniscience and plus omniscience&omnipotence also contradicts with "Free will".

If God is Omniscient and not omnipotent then we can say that God may exist but if with daisy chain them together we'd have a God who knows every possibility EVER (which is impossible because possibilities are infinite)and has the infinite power(which is also impossible considering infinity kinda grants you the power to do anything&everything) AND gives us "Free will" even though from God's POV everyone's life is pre-determined because knows everyone's life even before they're born.

SO THAT MEANS GOD HAD ALL THE POWER TO STOP WW2 and yet he didn't why ?? don't know maybe hitler was with God i guess ?

He totally floods the earth when people don't believe in him but when the whole world is having a blood orgy he doesn't care ?

So Either God is Only Omniscience or Omnipotent.

This video shows the main problem with the paradox related with the "God" concept.




Its okay to believe in a divine being to exist though,as an atheist i personally believe that a higher power does indeed exist but it is not God.

EDIT: Okay if the stone example is far-fetched then how about this one ?

A medieval arms salesman boasted that his sword was so sharp that it could penetrate any armor, and his shield was so tough that it could withstand any attack. A member of the crowd called out, "What happens when you strike your sword against your own shield?" The salesman was stumped.

This is a more logical example to prove why omnipotence is impossible by definition.

I wasn't disagreeing with you per say, just vetting my dislike of the use of 'common sense'. It gets tossed around far too often, and especially by laypeople, for my taste. Common sense when you get down to it is very subjective. Seemingly common sense things, like how to handle winter living in an area that measures yearly snowfall by the yard, is not at all common to someone living around the equator that never encounters snowfall. Just looking up into the sky and seeing the motion of the heavens while noticing that you are seemingly motionless on the ground, led to the common sense idea that the stars and sun revolve around the Earth. Common sense is always to be taken with a grain of salt.

There are things within science that we are about as convinced are as close to true as we can be, and yet they are anything but common sense. Take for example the constant speed of light. If you throw a ball at 20mph, the ball moves at 20mph. Get on the back of a truck moving 20mph and throw the ball in the same direction, to a stationary observer, the ball appears to be moving at 40mph. If you shoot a photon from the same moving truck, the photon does not travel the speed of light +20mph. Yet we are about as sure as we can be as to what the speed of light is, and that it is constant (in a vacuum at least). The speed of light and it's other properties are not absolute truths, but they're not 'common sense' either.

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21-11-2013, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2013 11:56 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
(21-11-2013 04:22 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Common sense when you get down to it is very subjective.
Something which is "Subjective" is merely just a guise for the saying "Its my opinion" so i don't consider anything which is "subjective" to be of anything more than an personal opinion.

I used "Common sense" in the same context as basic logic of reality as we perceive it and in our reality there is no such thing as a square circle and we know for CERTAIN that there cannot be a square circle,that is what i refer to as "Common sense".

I can use the same example of unbreakable sword&shield to a pre-colonial person and he still would understand what i'm saying despite not having a "Common sense" about my time.
>Common sense is always to be taken with a grain of salt
Common sense by definition is a commonly known fact however wrong it might be it still is commonly known regardless
for ex: brontosaurus and apatosaurus there's no such dinosaur as a "brontosaurus" because the guy who found it attached another dinosaur's head to the fossil because it didn't have one.
>There are things within science that we are about as convinced are as close to true as we can be, and yet they are anything but common sense.
Again not true,everything we have is a direct result of science and some of the basic laws like gravity and reflection is known to every school dropout and if you move even further into remote ares where people are uneducated you'd still find people who recognize patterns and conceptualize things and that's basically what science is.

Science in and of itself is an enormous field so you cannot say that some of it isn't known to the common everyday man.
>The speed of light and it's other properties are not absolute truths, but they're not 'common sense' either.

There's no such thing as an "Absolute truth" and the concept of light speed is commonly known by the urban educated community at least so i'd call that common sense as well.
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21-11-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
Good post. Well thought out.

Just as an FYI, the God-Rock Paradox isn't a problem and is debunked on a regular basis.

We have many threads dedicated to it, so I encourage you to look around.

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21-11-2013, 12:23 PM
RE: The Concept of God VS Simple Logic and Common sense
(21-11-2013 11:41 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 04:22 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Common sense when you get down to it is very subjective.
Something which is "Subjective" is merely just a guise for the saying "Its my opinion" so i don't consider anything which is "subjective" to be of anything more than an personal opinion.

I used "Common sense" in the same context as basic logic of reality as we perceive it and in our reality there is no such thing as a square circle and we know for CERTAIN that there cannot be a square circle,that is what i refer to as "Common sense".

I can use the same example of unbreakable sword&shield to a pre-colonial person and he still would understand what i'm saying despite not having a "Common sense" about my time.
>Common sense is always to be taken with a grain of salt
Common sense by definition is a commonly known fact however wrong it might be it still is commonly known regardless
for ex: brontosaurus and apatosaurus there's no such dinosaur as a "brontosaurus" because the guy who found it attached another dinosaur's head to the fossil because it didn't have one.
>There are things within science that we are about as convinced are as close to true as we can be, and yet they are anything but common sense.
Again not true,everything we have is a direct result of science and some of the basic laws like gravity and reflection is known to every school dropout and if you move even further into remote ares where people are uneducated you'd still find people who recognize patterns and conceptualize things and that's basically what science is.

Science in and of itself is an enormous field so you cannot say that some of it isn't known to the common everyday man.
>The speed of light and it's other properties are not absolute truths, but they're not 'common sense' either.

There's no such thing as an "Absolute truth" and the concept of light speed is commonly known by the urban educated community at least so i'd call that common sense as well.

Okay, let see if I can't sum up my point as I'm not sure it came across. The point was to be careful with the phrase 'common sense', because you are using it within a very specific range of meaning. 'Common sense' suffers from the same problem as the word 'theory', in that there is a more common usage and another more proper and specific definition used by science. Without making sure you define your word usage beforehand, it is very easy for people to misinterpret what you are trying to say when you use the phrase 'common sense' in English.

Also...

(21-11-2013 11:41 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Science in and of itself is an enormous field so you cannot say that some of it isn't known to the common everyday man.

Because the field is so vast and deep and one can spend more than a lifetime studying but a single facet of it? Yes, I can say that indeed much of it isn't known to the common everyday man. Just walk down the street and try having a factual intelligent conversation about thermodynamics, protbation theory, chemical abiogenesis, or quantum mechanics; and see just how far that gets you. Having an rudimentary understanding of how gravity works, at our scale and on our planet, does not adequately prepare someone for Einstein's work on special relativity. Thus what a bio-chemist or physicist might consider 'common sense' or 'common knowledge' within their field, will be very peculiar and specialized knowledge to people outside their particular area of study.

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