The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
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13-03-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 11:06 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  In the back of my mind I do often wonder if by silencing them am I serving their own purpose or fulfilling their agenda?

They are the same as proselytizing. Either you ban them and they are martyrs (only in their own minds), or we have to listen to their blather.

Some of them are interesting for a while, or they have a new slant on things, or they just remind us of what the world out there is like. But if we didn't have a revolving door for them, they would soon drown us out.

Imagine what this place would be like if all banned folks were still here.... (shudders)

A very scary thought indeed.
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13-03-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 05:04 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why oh why can't they just all be like psikeyhackr? He seems to get along fine here. Has the respect of most members, makes valid points, does the math, builds actual models, etc.

Good sarcasm is hard to come by, Gman -- thanks for the laugh, brotha.
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13-03-2017, 11:30 AM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2017 11:37 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 11:06 AM)Dom Wrote:  They are the same as proselytizing. Either you ban them and they are martyrs (only in their own minds), or we have to listen to their blather.

We had plenty of theistic proselytizers in the Amazon forums. They sometimes pretended to be interested in discussions, but typically ignored or denied anything we wrote to them. Really they were there to tell us how awful atheists were, and thought we were lying when we tried to explain ourselves. So they did their best to disrupt our efforts to promote real information about atheism. I'm glad you don't tolerate that kind of behavior here.

Frusty
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13-03-2017, 11:31 AM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
I found it quite ironic that someone that believes that 911 was a conspiracy and government coverup thought we were guilty of confirmation bias. Dodgy

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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13-03-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 12:47 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Good riddance.

He was clearly looking for death by mod. The last desperate action of someone who can't handle people rejecting their nonsense.

In his mind, he must be right about everything now, because we had to silence him.

This is interesting, because there is an internal hum (for lack of a better word) that does occur at times when I've banned someone. Not all the time, but on occasion.

I think it comes down to extreme positions, the hostile religious person, the obnoxiously hostile atheist (who's sometimes also a social darwinist), the white nationalist, the holocaust denier, or ardent conspiracy theorist, who forces their own belief about whatever on everyone here. Could be the silly, the earth is flat or dinosaurs didn't ever exist, to the more pervasive about African-Americans, Jewish peoples, as well as other groups. In the back of my mind I do often wonder if by silencing them am I serving their own purpose or fulfilling their agenda?

I have to remind myself, by giving them a voice on this forum I'm also in a way condoning them and giving sanction that their ideas have merit. They don't, and most of their "ideas" are rubbish and after being called out as such, and if they don't just fade away on their own, they need to be shown the door, especially if their interest or reason for being here is myopic.

Y'know, Moms, you and the other staff here handle this sort of thing better than most places I've ever posted at -- and better, I suspect than you credit yourself with.

Keep on keepin' on, hon. You guys are getting it right.
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13-03-2017, 12:27 PM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 11:06 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  In the back of my mind I do often wonder if by silencing them am I serving their own purpose or fulfilling their agenda?



They are the same as proselytizing. Either you ban them and they are martyrs (only in their own minds), or we have to listen to their blather.

Some of them are interesting for a while, or they have a new slant on things, or they just remind us of what the world out there is like. But if we didn't have a revolving door for them, they would soon drown us out.

Imagine what this place would be like if all banned folks were still here.... (shudders)

Like Arkham Asylum, except without the cheerful atmosphere.
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13-03-2017, 01:06 PM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  In the back of my mind I do often wonder if by silencing them am I serving their own purpose or fulfilling their agenda?

Some of them may feel vindicated and consider themselves martyrs but it matters not. I've seen forum when mods stopped caring about keeping the house clean. In less than month it became shit clogged sever. So I would say that it is better to ban nuts and feed their delusions than keep them here.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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13-03-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...
I have to remind myself, by giving them a voice on this forum I'm also in a way condoning them and giving sanction that their ideas have merit. They don't, and most of their "ideas" are rubbish and after being called out as such, and if they don't just fade away on their own, they need to be shown the door, especially if their interest or reason for being here is myopic.

Is the Oxford Union (or any debate or discussion forum) condoning someone simply because they uphold the fundamental principle of freedom of expression? Nope.

You (we all) are sanctioning a person's right to that expression, not the ideas they express.

The 'calling out of the bad ideas' is what it's all about. Good arguments will always beat bad arguments (eventually, even if the bad arguments get elected and have an army behind them).

Persisting in the bad argument is not reason enough to be shown the door. It's reason enough to be challenged.

But if the bad arguer goes all hissy fit and claims bigotry when they have simply failed to persuade, what are the choices? The naughty step; a muzzle; no TV for a week?

It's in the playground that we should learn that poor self-control will be scorned and ridiculed or ignored.

(As an aside, we need to be careful with the scorn. If we are reduced to ad homs - bad arguments - too soon, then we must look at ourselves to see if we really have had a disquieting moment of confirmation bias / cognitive dissonance. And that's healthy.)

It's a last resort that sometimes these unruly children need to be removed from class (and the school) for the safety of / the benefit of the other children who are there to learn.

It's the lack of self control / unruly behaviour that gets punished.

Smile

(13-03-2017 10:59 AM)adey67 Wrote:  FWIW moms I think you are firm but also extremely fair, all the mods and admins here do a really good job Imo.
(13-03-2017 11:34 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Y'know, Moms, you and the other staff here handle this sort of thing better than most places I've ever posted at -- and better, I suspect than you credit yourself with.

Keep on keepin' on, hon. You guys are getting it right.

Thank you. Nice of you both to say so.

In my view, it's like Building Maintenance or IT Support... it's being done well if it's invisible.

(13-03-2017 11:30 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  ...
We had plenty of theistic proselytizers in the Amazon forums. They sometimes pretended to be interested in discussions, but typically ignored or denied anything we wrote to them. Really they were there to tell us how awful atheists were, and thought we were lying when we tried to explain ourselves. So they did their best to disrupt our efforts to promote real information about atheism. I'm glad you don't tolerate that kind of behavior here.

Frusty

But with this I have to disagree.

Some atheists are awful Big Grin

If our concepts, ideas and methodologies are weak or become dogmatic they should be challenged... bubbles should be burst and confirmation biases should be exposed.

Disruption for disruptions sake is what is not tolerated. At least not for long. It depends much on Moms' caffeine intake.

In other words, trolling ain't so bad (if it was, we'd have to ban Girlyman, HoC, and me too, probably). It's the malicious trolls that are the danger.

Or to put it another way... the Milos of the world we can handle; the Steve Bannons need to be rooted out and shown the door.

Yes

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13-03-2017, 02:31 PM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 01:37 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...
I have to remind myself, by giving them a voice on this forum I'm also in a way condoning them and giving sanction that their ideas have merit. They don't, and most of their "ideas" are rubbish and after being called out as such, and if they don't just fade away on their own, they need to be shown the door, especially if their interest or reason for being here is myopic.

Is the Oxford Union (or any debate or discussion forum) condoning someone simply because they uphold the fundamental principle of freedom of expression? Nope.

You (we all) are sanctioning a person's right to that expression, not the ideas they express.

The 'calling out of the bad ideas' is what it's all about. Good arguments will always beat bad arguments (eventually, even if the bad arguments get elected and have an army behind them).

Persisting in the bad argument is not reason enough to be shown the door. It's reason enough to be challenged.

But if the bad arguer goes all hissy fit and claims bigotry when they have simply failed to persuade, what are the choices? The naughty step; a muzzle; no TV for a week?

It's in the playground that we should learn that poor self-control will be scorned and ridiculed or ignored.

(As an aside, we need to be careful with the scorn. If we are reduced to ad homs - bad arguments - too soon, then we must look at ourselves to see if we really have had a disquieting moment of confirmation bias / cognitive dissonance. And that's healthy.)

It's a last resort that sometimes these unruly children need to be removed from class (and the school) for the safety of / the benefit of the other children who are there to learn.

It's the lack of self control / unruly behaviour that gets punished.

Smile

(13-03-2017 10:59 AM)adey67 Wrote:  FWIW moms I think you are firm but also extremely fair, all the mods and admins here do a really good job Imo.
(13-03-2017 11:34 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Y'know, Moms, you and the other staff here handle this sort of thing better than most places I've ever posted at -- and better, I suspect than you credit yourself with.

Keep on keepin' on, hon. You guys are getting it right.

Thank you. Nice of you both to say so.

In my view, it's like Building Maintenance or IT Support... it's being done well if it's invisible.

(13-03-2017 11:30 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  ...
We had plenty of theistic proselytizers in the Amazon forums. They sometimes pretended to be interested in discussions, but typically ignored or denied anything we wrote to them. Really they were there to tell us how awful atheists were, and thought we were lying when we tried to explain ourselves. So they did their best to disrupt our efforts to promote real information about atheism. I'm glad you don't tolerate that kind of behavior here.

Frusty

But with this I have to disagree.

Some atheists are awful Big Grin

If our concepts, ideas and methodologies are weak or become dogmatic they should be challenged... bubbles should be burst and confirmation biases should be exposed.

Disruption for disruptions sake is what is not tolerated. At least not for long. It depends much on Moms' caffeine intake.

In other words, trolling ain't so bad (if it was, we'd have to ban Girlyman, HoC, and me too, probably). It's the malicious trolls that are the danger.

Or to put it another way... the Milos of the world we can handle; the Steve Bannons need to be rooted out and shown the door.

Yes

Fucking wow dude. Thank you. I especially loved your first part on debates.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
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13-03-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: The Confirmation Bias and Bigotry that is rampant in this forum.
(13-03-2017 10:54 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  In the back of my mind I do often wonder if by silencing them am I serving their own purpose or fulfilling their agenda?

I have to remind myself, by giving them a voice on this forum I'm also in a way condoning them and giving sanction that their ideas have merit.

Mum, just think this: "What would Goebels do?"

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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