The Consolations of Atheism
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15-06-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 04:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-06-2014 04:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Enlightenment itself on the other hand turns out to be just a big pile of poo.
Subjectively speaking knowledge is indeed a fleeting thing, if that's what you mean.
I mean there's a big pile of poo in front of me which I'm supposed to make something out of. I got it. No biggie. Thumbsup

#sigh
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15-06-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 04:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(14-06-2014 09:54 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Okay, I guess that was a bit out of left field. Thanks for ignoring it though.

You seem infatuated with this ontological definition of love, and your logical conclusion is for that love to be god because in your mind there is no greater thing. But if we take a look at what we call love, do we not observe the same capability for affection, selflessness, loyalty and contentment in other animals?

We humans happen to have brains that have evolved enough to be able to wonder what it is that makes us love. We are able to turn love into an abstract concept and apply different labels to it, but that doesn't mean that other creatures can't or don't feel the same things that we do towards other beings.

So I ask again, if god were willing to put this love into other animals, do you think he would have to have given them a soul in order to feel it? If not, then what is it about us humans that makes that love a different love?

How are we not just different animals feeling the same thing?
I apologize for only now getting to this post. I enjoy writing to you, I just don't always have the time.

You ask a great question. I debate this topic a lot on the Christian forums. I believe animals have souls. The word soul is nephesh in Hebrew. It means to breathe in the basic sense. I think we are animals with greater reasoning ability than lower forms of animals. Animals do feel Love is my observation. I still remember the crap I got on this forum when I said my dog was a theist because she felt compassion. Looking back it makes me laugh. Do you remember that?

Ha! Now that you mention it I do remember that. Okay, guess I can't argue with you there.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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15-06-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
I don't take anything Jeremy E Walker writes seriously.
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15-06-2014, 05:38 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 04:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(14-06-2014 09:54 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Okay, I guess that was a bit out of left field. Thanks for ignoring it though.

You seem infatuated with this ontological definition of love, and your logical conclusion is for that love to be god because in your mind there is no greater thing. But if we take a look at what we call love, do we not observe the same capability for affection, selflessness, loyalty and contentment in other animals?

We humans happen to have brains that have evolved enough to be able to wonder what it is that makes us love. We are able to turn love into an abstract concept and apply different labels to it, but that doesn't mean that other creatures can't or don't feel the same things that we do towards other beings.

So I ask again, if god were willing to put this love into other animals, do you think he would have to have given them a soul in order to feel it? If not, then what is it about us humans that makes that love a different love?

How are we not just different animals feeling the same thing?
I apologize for only now getting to this post. I enjoy writing to you, I just don't always have the time.

You ask a great question. I debate this topic a lot on the Christian forums. I believe animals have souls. The word soul is nephesh in Hebrew. It means to breathe in the basic sense. I think we are animals with greater reasoning ability than lower forms of animals. Animals do feel Love is my observation. I still remember the crap I got on this forum when I said my dog was a theist because she felt compassion. Looking back it makes me laugh. Do you remember that?

What counts as an animal? What counts as "breath"?

A human breathes - we may take that as a safe assumption. Apes breathe.

Apparently dogs breathe.

Does a frog breathe? It does not have lungs. But it performs rhythmic actions to take in air in order to permit cellular respiration.

Does an insect breathe? It too has dedicated pathways for directing atmospheric oxygen to its internal cells for cellular respiration, but it performs no muscular action to do so.

Does a fish breathe?

Does an amoeba breathe? It performs the exact same cellular respiration that you and I do.

Whatever silly subjective-feels-based line you draw will be arbitrary at best. So there's that.

... this is my signature!
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15-06-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(12-06-2014 04:01 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  It has been impossible for me to hold any conversation about Atheism with a believer in some cult or other without the following statements and questions escaping their lips: "It must be awful not to believe in god. You must be so depressed and sad all the time." or "Why would you want to take away something from us that gives us peace, happiness, and consolation? Why don't you just leave us alone?"

Set aside for the moment that I don't believe them for a second that it offers them any such thing, it always makes me think about how much better I feel now that I am an Atheist. My experience was and is profoundly the reverse of what the believers usually expect it to be. I believe that non-belief offers much better and more permanent consolation that religion ever could. I will gladly tell you why.

1. There is no one watching me when I am alone. If you grew up religious it's likely that you have heard this totalitarian nonsense, that god is always watching (perhaps most attentively when you masturbate). What a relief it is not be under a total and unalterable surveillance that utterly robs me of the peace that comes from privacy. What a relief not to be judging myself on god's behalf. There is no frantic, masochistic, and desperate self abjection and denial of happiness and fulfillment. It is impossible for me to explain how priceless the peace of merely existing without original sin on your mind is.

2. I do not fear death. Without life beyond the grave what is left to fear? Only the business of dying, not the death itself. Even then I can die with the knowledge that whatever pain I suffer will soon be over and that I will not be around to suffer in the aftermath.

3. My personal relationships are more important to me and more fulfilling. The realization of limited time with friends and family reminds me why they are the most important part of my life. I can spend what time we have together and I can do it without the indignity of pretending I have a remedy or a cure for the unavoidable grief that will seize me upon their death. Afterwards I can spare other friends and relatives useless and stupid statements of supposed comfort regarding seeing the dead again one day or their current residence with angels.

4. There is no Hell. No sadistic pit of fire and torture awaits beyond the grave for any of us, which none of us could ever have deserved to begin with. Those of us who were abused by our teachers and parents with tales of the flames in our youth can truly appreciate the profound and drawn out mental anguish it awakes. We can also appreciate the immeasurable relief that is extracted from the discovery that it is not and never was true.

5. There is no reason to engage in exhausting and impossible missionary work. I have no need to convert my fellows around the world to any cult, but rather can begin the real business of living in and maintaining peace with a global community of many different ideologies and religions. Giving up what is perhaps the most divisive element within culture is the first major step towards seeing the peoples of the world as they are and not what I wish they were.

6. I don't have to listen to the innumerable human authorities who claim my allegiance in the name of god and/or religion. I don't have to feel obligated or involved in the often horrendous actions they take around the world. At the very least I can maintain the dignity and self respect of a person who has no master or liege lord to whom he owes service or support. I live in a free nation but only as a free man because of my emancipation from religion, not in spite of it. Freeing my mind to think for myself and making my own moral decisions is only the minimum required to be the best person I can be. It just so happens that I can make a great deal more progress without defending the immorality of religion along the way. A great part of that progress is my desire to be on the side of abused children rather than their abusers.

7. I can and will partake in every joy and pleasure that is available to me, especially including those prohibited by religion. I have an unfettered opportunity to focus on a fulfilling life rather than an abject one. Even better still, I have friends and family to accompany me on the journey for their own fulfillment. There is not only no need but no desire in me for the self denial, abjection, loathing, judgement, and fear that accompany belief. Emancipation from religion is like a cage being opened, but discovering a world of wonder and pleasure is like bounding through the open door and running like the wind to a new life.

Perhaps we can all hear a little less about how our only hope for peace and joy in this life is belief and devotion to one religion or another. I am getting along much better than I ever did as a believer and so can you.

bravo!

Just because YOU believe in fairies doesn't mean anybody else should.
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15-06-2014, 09:54 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 05:44 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(14-06-2014 02:24 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Jeremy who told you life without God is bleak and depressing? Who? And who are they that you value their opinion?

Bertrand Russell, Sartre, Nietzsche, Hesse, Beckett, Camus etc. etc.

Those are the more well known ones. I have personally spoken with atheists who have told me that life without God is ultimately meaningless so this is not something I have made up.


below is an article you may want to read.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...ak-atheism

Black Swan Fallacy. My life fucking rocks. Stuff your strawmen right up your ass and set 'em on fire.



(15-06-2014 01:07 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(15-06-2014 01:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You misread them. Ultimate meaningless does not equal bleak and depressing. Quite the opposite actually. Silly Jeremy.

Bare assertion. What can be asserted without evidence, can be so dismissed. Thank Chris!
[Image: 055027weirdkidfap.gif]










Says the asshole who asserts his magic sky fairy without a single shred of evidence. Facepalm

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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15-06-2014, 10:00 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 04:14 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(14-06-2014 09:32 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Too fucking bad. Can't put anything in a cup full of shit.
Correction, I asked to be enlightened. No one asking for enlightenment is full of shit.

You can do your faux-asking all you want. The folks here give you good information and you reject it in favor of your silly fucking superstitions. Take the fucking cotton out of your fucking ears and stick it in your fucking mouth.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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15-06-2014, 10:21 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
This, and versions of it, is called JAQing off.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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15-06-2014, 10:27 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 10:21 PM)Charis Wrote:  This, and versions of it, is called JAQing off.

DAMN, I love it when you say things like that....

Tongue

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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15-06-2014, 10:42 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(15-06-2014 05:38 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(15-06-2014 04:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  I apologize for only now getting to this post. I enjoy writing to you, I just don't always have the time.

You ask a great question. I debate this topic a lot on the Christian forums. I believe animals have souls. The word soul is nephesh in Hebrew. It means to breathe in the basic sense. I think we are animals with greater reasoning ability than lower forms of animals. Animals do feel Love is my observation. I still remember the crap I got on this forum when I said my dog was a theist because she felt compassion. Looking back it makes me laugh. Do you remember that?

What counts as an animal? What counts as "breath"?

A human breathes - we may take that as a safe assumption. Apes breathe.

Apparently dogs breathe.

Does a frog breathe? It does not have lungs. But it performs rhythmic actions to take in air in order to permit cellular respiration.

Does an insect breathe? It too has dedicated pathways for directing atmospheric oxygen to its internal cells for cellular respiration, but it performs no muscular action to do so.

Does a fish breathe?

Does an amoeba breathe? It performs the exact same cellular respiration that you and I do.

Whatever silly subjective-feels-based line you draw will be arbitrary at best. So there's that.
Your points are accurate except I don't see any reason to be arbitrary, nor would I attempt to draw a line. I'm just saying what the words mean as I understand them.
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