The Consolations of Atheism
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16-06-2014, 07:24 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2014 07:34 PM by childeye.)
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 01:58 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Childeye,

I have some questions for you, some of which I have already asked that have become lost in the discussion. I am very interested to read your answers. I hope you don't mind.

You said the following early on in the discussion.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  Atheism is a contradictory reasoning based upon a misunderstanding of the term God. By an atheists definition of god, gods etc.. all True Christians are atheists.

Quote:1. In what way is remaining unconvinced of a particular religion's claims a contradiction? What does it contradict?
It doesn't contradict anything. But I do not view Christianity as a religion.

Quote:2. What is "an atheists definition of god" and as opposed to what other "type" of definition?
There are many atheist definitions of god, gods , goddesses . Generally speaking, I take it to mean an invented deity appealing to the superstitious minds of the gullible. That would be opposed to God the goodness that is Love, as in empathy.

Quote:3. What is a True Christian? What does it mean and how can we tell who is and who isn't?
A True Christian is one who is led by the Holy Spirit of Truth unto revelation of the True character of God. It involves an atonement made by the Christ so as to be reconciled with God. This results in a restoring of the mind and spirit of the Christian. It is an ongoing process with growing degrees of maturity. But the intent of the Holy Spirit is to draw men to God and create the children of God.

Quote:4. How is an Atheist, someone who does not believe there is a god, in any way a Christian, someone who worships and attempts to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ?
They aren't. However when an atheist says there is no God it is a contradiction based on a misunderstanding of the term, since they would otherwise acknowledge that Love rules as the moral goodness in mankind and they do value love greatly just like everyone else. They cry, they care about there families and friends. They desire peace and wellbeing. The fact that they conflate god with religion supports their contempt for god since many mistaken ideals of god have corrupted men's minds for ages and brought forth persecution in the name of god. In my view, the poison of that corruption has spread to the atheist mind. Therefore they have an aversion to the term God. They hate God, but love Love. A contradiction from a Christian perspective.

Moreover, the words Christianity and Christ, are just words that are meant to represent certain shall I say Godly attributes. It is notable that there have been Christian institutions that have displayed ungodly attributes. Consequently, it is conceivable that an atheist actually agrees with Christ if they understood the reality of it without the religious aspect tied in with such institutions.


Quote:5. In what way are the concepts of god and love the same thing?

This question is somewhat loaded, not intentionally.. I don't see Empathy or God as a concept. Love is Empathy and empathy is the voice of God in the heart. Love is the moral goodness that rules in all men. It would not be a religion therefore but could only come from the Maker.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  The Spirit of Christ is real even as you have just acknowledged. It is a fact. It is not an ideal, it is the reality of morality.

Quote:6. What exactly is "The Spirit of Christ" and what evidence convinces you personally of its nature and reality?

The Spirit of Christ is a self sacrificing Love that places others above it's self. The nature of such a Love is not something I would attempt to explain without doing injustice. The reality is I experience it both in giving and recieving, as do many.

Quote:7. What do you mean by "It is not an ideal"?

The term ideal represents to me something imagined but not necessarily real.


Quote:8. In what way is "The Spirit of Christ" related to Morality?
The way I see it, every moral/immoral choice is either sacrificing yourself for others or sacrificing others for yourself. One's imagery of God is there guiding moral principles upon which they reason.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  An absolute moral good. A single moral Truth that all men must eventually submit to.

Quote:9. What evidence convinces you that there exist one absolute moral good? What evidence proves this as truth and not merely your subjective opinion?
It is self evident. Everyone knows love others as they would want to be loved.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  We all need to be loved and be ruled by Truth.
(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  An absolute moral good. A single moral Truth that all men must eventually submit to.

Quote:10. Why is it your opinion that everyone ought to "eventually submit" and "be ruled by truth".
It's not my opinion per se. Love is what is good, Love should rule.
Quote:If the rest of us don't want to take your word for the "truth" you wish us to be ruled by, can you give us a better reason to agree with you?
I don't want anybody to take my word for it. I want them to acknowledge that love is real and vital. Atheists use the term "believer". It is a secular term that carries religious connotations and all the accompanying sentiments. To a Christian believing is trusting. Hence when Jesus says believe on me in scripture, he is not asking these people to believe he exists. He wants them to trust him. That is what faith is about.

Quote:11. How is Jesus Christ, the man/god, also "the word of god". I am unsure if you mean to say he is the bible, or the sum of all words related to Christianity. Either way, how can he be both a living entity and also words?
The phrase "The Word", is meant to imply God's communication. It is not articulated in terms but in spirit. Hence the Word is in the hearts of al men. The Word of God is Empathy, trust, hope. Every good thing.

Quote:12. I can't help but wonder, by what standard or authority do you tell the difference and/or measure whether there is enough selflessness or not? For example, I am eating lunch just now. I could be feeding my lunch to someone downtown who doesn't have one if I wanted to. There a plenty of opportunities like that every day but I doubt people seriously consider doing them very often. Who is to judge whether sitting and eating my own lunch, in full empathetic knowledge of starving homeless downtown, is anything close to living a selfless life?
The perfection of selflessness is to sell everything you have and give to the poor. But it is a bit more complicated. It is not done for the sake of looking good to God. When a person serves God , he gives as he is compelled. I own a home and I am not homeless. But if I had no home, I would be a burden on someone else who loves me. I wouldn't want that either. This is a good question. There are some great stories about how God works concerning this.

Quote:13. Is it your view that it is possible, limited human beings that we are, to follow every commandment and injunction in Christianity to full satisfaction and perfection? Also, how likely is it for the average person to do so?
I think it is absolutely possible. All a Christian has to do is Love others as they would want to be loved. Love is what does it. Personally I don't think I do anything. When you say average person I assume you mean someone without the holy Spirit. I don't know how that is. I imagine it would be difficult because the reasoning of the mind is different.
Quote:14. In your view, what do "carnal mind" or "carnal understanding" mean?
It means a person reasons upon carnal instincts. The Love of self. The carnal mind cannot acknowledge God. The carnal mind seeks comforts for its own flesh and desperately ties to avoid pain even if it means handing pain to someone else. The spiritual mind seeks comfort for others even if it means pain for its self. This it does gladly.
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16-06-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
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16-06-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 07:24 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 01:58 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Childeye,

I have some questions for you, some of which I have already asked that have become lost in the discussion. I am very interested to read your answers. I hope you don't mind.

You said the following early on in the discussion.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  Atheism is a contradictory reasoning based upon a misunderstanding of the term God. By an atheists definition of god, gods etc.. all True Christians are atheists.

Quote:1. In what way is remaining unconvinced of a particular religion's claims a contradiction? What does it contradict?
It doesn't contradict anything. But I do not view Christianity as a religion.

Quote:2. What is "an atheists definition of god" and as opposed to what other "type" of definition?
There are many atheist definitions of god, gods , goddesses . Generally speaking, I take it to mean an invented deity appealing to the superstitious minds of the gullible. That would be opposed to God the goodness that is Love, as in empathy.

Quote:3. What is a True Christian? What does it mean and how can we tell who is and who isn't?
A True Christian is one who is led by the Holy Spirit of Truth unto revelation of the True character of God. It involves an atonement made by the Christ so as to be reconciled with God. This results in a restoring of the mind and spirit of the Christian. It is an ongoing process with growing degrees of maturity. But the intent of the Holy Spirit is to draw men to God and create the children of God.

Quote:4. How is an Atheist, someone who does not believe there is a god, in any way a Christian, someone who worships and attempts to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ?
They aren't. However when an atheist says there is no God it is a contradiction based on a misunderstanding of the term, since they would otherwise acknowledge that Love rules as the moral goodness in mankind and they do value love greatly just like everyone else. They cry, they care about there families and friends. They desire peace and wellbeing. The fact that they conflate god with religion supports their contempt for god since many mistaken ideals of god have corrupted men's minds for ages and brought forth persecution in the name of god. In my view, the poison of that corruption has spread to the atheist mind. Therefore they have an aversion to the term God. They hate God, but love Love. A contradiction from a Christian perspective.

Moreover, the words Christianity and Christ, are just words that are meant to represent certain shall I say Godly attributes. It is notable that there have been Christian institutions that have displayed ungodly attributes. Consequently, it is conceivable that an atheist actually agrees with Christ if they understood the reality of it without the religious aspect tied in with such institutions.


Quote:5. In what way are the concepts of god and love the same thing?

This question is somewhat loaded, not intentionally.. I don't see Empathy or God as a concept. Love is Empathy and empathy is the voice of God in the heart. Love is the moral goodness that rules in all men. It would not be a religion therefore but could only come from the Maker.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  The Spirit of Christ is real even as you have just acknowledged. It is a fact. It is not an ideal, it is the reality of morality.

Quote:6. What exactly is "The Spirit of Christ" and what evidence convinces you personally of its nature and reality?

The Spirit of Christ is a self sacrificing Love that places others above it's self. The nature of such a Love is not something I would attempt to explain without doing injustice. The reality is I experience it both in giving and recieving, as do many.

Quote:7. What do you mean by "It is not an ideal"?

The term ideal represents to me something imagined but not necessarily real.


Quote:8. In what way is "The Spirit of Christ" related to Morality?
The way I see it, every moral/immoral choice is either sacrificing yourself for others or sacrificing others for yourself. One's imagery of God is there guiding moral principles upon which they reason.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  An absolute moral good. A single moral Truth that all men must eventually submit to.

Quote:9. What evidence convinces you that there exist one absolute moral good? What evidence proves this as truth and not merely your subjective opinion?
It is self evident. Everyone knows love others as they would want to be loved.

(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  We all need to be loved and be ruled by Truth.
(15-06-2014 11:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  An absolute moral good. A single moral Truth that all men must eventually submit to.

Quote:10. Why is it your opinion that everyone ought to "eventually submit" and "be ruled by truth".
It's not my opinion per se. Love is what is good, Love should rule.
Quote:If the rest of us don't want to take your word for the "truth" you wish us to be ruled by, can you give us a better reason to agree with you?
I don't want anybody to take my word for it. I want them to acknowledge that love is real and vital. Atheists use the term "believer". It is a secular term that carries religious connotations and all the accompanying sentiments. To a Christian believing is trusting. Hence when Jesus says believe on me in scripture, he is not asking these people to believe he exists. He wants them to trust him. That is what faith is about.

Quote:11. How is Jesus Christ, the man/god, also "the word of god". I am unsure if you mean to say he is the bible, or the sum of all words related to Christianity. Either way, how can he be both a living entity and also words?
The phrase "The Word", is meant to imply God's communication. It is not articulated in terms but in spirit. Hence the Word is in the hearts of al men. The Word of God is Empathy, trust, hope. Every good thing.

Quote:12. I can't help but wonder, by what standard or authority do you tell the difference and/or measure whether there is enough selflessness or not? For example, I am eating lunch just now. I could be feeding my lunch to someone downtown who doesn't have one if I wanted to. There a plenty of opportunities like that every day but I doubt people seriously consider doing them very often. Who is to judge whether sitting and eating my own lunch, in full empathetic knowledge of starving homeless downtown, is anything close to living a selfless life?
The perfection of selflessness is to sell everything you have and give to the poor. But it is a bit more complicated. It is not done for the sake of looking good to God. When a person serves God , he gives as he is compelled. I own a home and I am not homeless. But if I had no home, I would be a burden on someone else who loves me. I wouldn't want that either. This is a good question. There are some great stories about how God works concerning this.

Quote:13. Is it your view that it is possible, limited human beings that we are, to follow every commandment and injunction in Christianity to full satisfaction and perfection? Also, how likely is it for the average person to do so?
I think it is absolutely possible. All a Christian has to do is Love others as they would want to be loved. Love is what does it. Personally I don't think I do anything. When you say average person I assume you mean someone without the holy Spirit. I don't know how that is. I imagine it would be difficult because the reasoning of the mind is different.
Quote:14. In your view, what do "carnal mind" or "carnal understanding" mean?
It means a person reasons upon carnal instincts. The Love of self. The carnal mind cannot acknowledge God. The carnal mind seeks comforts for its own flesh and desperately ties to avoid pain even if it means handing pain to someone else. The spiritual mind seeks comfort for others even if it means pain for its self. This it does gladly.

Not this shit again. You failed before with it. Are you suffering from dementia ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-06-2014, 07:39 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 07:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 07:24 PM)childeye Wrote:  It doesn't contradict anything. But I do not view Christianity as a religion.

There are many atheist definitions of god, gods , goddesses . Generally speaking, I take it to mean an invented deity appealing to the superstitious minds of the gullible. That would be opposed to God the goodness that is Love, as in empathy.

A True Christian is one who is led by the Holy Spirit of Truth unto revelation of the True character of God. It involves an atonement made by the Christ so as to be reconciled with God. This results in a restoring of the mind and spirit of the Christian. It is an ongoing process with growing degrees of maturity. But the intent of the Holy Spirit is to draw men to God and create the children of God.

They aren't. However when an atheist says there is no God it is a contradiction based on a misunderstanding of the term, since they would otherwise acknowledge that Love rules as the moral goodness in mankind and they do value love greatly just like everyone else. They cry, they care about there families and friends. They desire peace and wellbeing. The fact that they conflate god with religion supports their contempt for god since many mistaken ideals of god have corrupted men's minds for ages and brought forth persecution in the name of god. In my view, the poison of that corruption has spread to the atheist mind. Therefore they have an aversion to the term God. They hate God, but love Love. A contradiction from a Christian perspective.

Moreover, the words Christianity and Christ, are just words that are meant to represent certain shall I say Godly attributes. It is notable that there have been Christian institutions that have displayed ungodly attributes. Consequently, it is conceivable that an atheist actually agrees with Christ if they understood the reality of it without the religious aspect tied in with such institutions.



This question is somewhat loaded, not intentionally.. I don't see Empathy or God as a concept. Love is Empathy and empathy is the voice of God in the heart. Love is the moral goodness that rules in all men. It would not be a religion therefore but could only come from the Maker.



The Spirit of Christ is a self sacrificing Love that places others above it's self. The nature of such a Love is not something I would attempt to explain without doing injustice. The reality is I experience it both in giving and recieving, as do many.


The term ideal represents to me something imagined but not necessarily real.


The way I see it, every moral/immoral choice is either sacrificing yourself for others or sacrificing others for yourself. One's imagery of God is there guiding moral principles upon which they reason.


It is self evident. Everyone knows love others as they would want to be loved.


It's not my opinion per se. Love is what is good, Love should rule.
I don't want anybody to take my word for it. I want them to acknowledge that love is real and vital. Atheists use the term "believer". It is a secular term that carries religious connotations and all the accompanying sentiments. To a Christian believing is trusting. Hence when Jesus says believe on me in scripture, he is not asking these people to believe he exists. He wants them to trust him. That is what faith is about.

The phrase "The Word", is meant to imply God's communication. It is not articulated in terms but in spirit. Hence the Word is in the hearts of al men. The Word of God is Empathy, trust, hope. Every good thing.

The perfection of selflessness is to sell everything you have and give to the poor. But it is a bit more complicated. It is not done for the sake of looking good to God. When a person serves God , he gives as he is compelled. I own a home and I am not homeless. But if I had no home, I would be a burden on someone else who loves me. I wouldn't want that either. This is a good question. There are some great stories about how God works concerning this.

I think it is absolutely possible. All a Christian has to do is Love others as they would want to be loved. Love is what does it. Personally I don't think I do anything. When you say average person I assume you mean someone without the holy Spirit. I don't know how that is. I imagine it would be difficult because the reasoning of the mind is different.
It means a person reasons upon carnal instincts. The Love of self. The carnal mind cannot acknowledge God. The carnal mind seeks comforts for its own flesh and desperately ties to avoid pain even if it means handing pain to someone else. The spiritual mind seeks comfort for others even if it means pain for its self. This it does gladly.

Not this shit again. You failed before with it. Are you suffering from dementia ?
Probably.
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16-06-2014, 08:05 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 07:39 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 07:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Not this shit again. You failed before with it. Are you suffering from dementia ?
Probably.

Nothing probable about it. It's a certainty. You would do better to post sets of words from a random word generator. It would make more sense.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-06-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 08:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 07:39 PM)childeye Wrote:  Probably.

Nothing probable about it. It's a certainty. You would do better to post sets of words from a random word generator. It would make more sense.

Bucky, if he made any sense you could actually argue against it. Why would he want to give you reason to disagree with him? Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-06-2014, 09:24 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 09:04 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 08:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nothing probable about it. It's a certainty. You would do better to post sets of words from a random word generator. It would make more sense.

Bucky, if he made any sense you could actually argue against it. Why would he want to give you reason to disagree with him? Tongue

As Maggie Smith said in Downton Abbey, "Well, you've got me there". Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-06-2014, 09:29 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 07:24 PM)childeye Wrote:  It is notable that there have been Christian institutions that have displayed ungodly attributes

You mean they don't murder women for looking back at their atrocities, or commit mass genocide? Hobo

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16-06-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 08:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 07:39 PM)childeye Wrote:  Probably.

Nothing probable about it. It's a certainty. You would do better to post sets of words from a random word generator. It would make more sense.
I really am doing my best. I think I said everything pretty well. Seriously, you really don't understand any of it? I marvel at that.
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16-06-2014, 10:39 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(16-06-2014 09:29 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 07:24 PM)childeye Wrote:  It is notable that there have been Christian institutions that have displayed ungodly attributes

You mean they don't murder women for looking back at their atrocities, or commit mass genocide? Hobo
No, they do. There are powers of darkness that seek to silence the Truth. It makes perfect sense that Satan would try to discredit Christ through false representation. The scriptures clearly predicted that.
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