The Consolations of Atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-06-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 04:07 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  the concept of the Christian god contradicts The axioms existence, consciousness, identity and the primacy of existence.

This is non-sensical.


(13-06-2014 04:07 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  It contradicts every principle of a rational metaphysics and epistemology.

Bare assertion. Needs to be supported.


(13-06-2014 04:07 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You can not arrive at the concept of the Christian God by objective reason.

Bare assertion. Needs to be supported.


(13-06-2014 04:07 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You can't inform the concept of the Christian god by looking outward at reality but only by looking inward to the imagination

Bare assertion. Needs to be supported.

(13-06-2014 04:07 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  and I hope you recognize the fundamental difference between reality and imagination.

I do.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 04:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I have a world view, yes,

I know you do. We all do.


(13-06-2014 04:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  but religion doesn't occupy any space in that view. I was raised entirely without any religion and very little contact with modern society until I was about 10 years old. Religion and god wasn't even a word I knew existed nor a thing that was. God and theism is not just a foreign language to me but not a language at all. I would liken it to a sound that doesn't exist. I have a hard time even calling myself an atheist since being an atheist denotes a lack of an existing god or evidence for it. I'm way beyond that description. I don't even need a label.

Cool.

(13-06-2014 04:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yet here I am, happy, fulfilled, thrilled with life, not afraid of death, often generous to a fault, well adjusted and easy going. Most theists are very eager to convert me. Why? Because they somehow think that my happiness is misguided and perhaps I would be happier believing in their god. And what to they hand me? Sin. I have to admit to sin so I can be saved. It reminds me of a parent who forces their child to admit they are a horrible, deceitful, sinful person for stealing something from the store to avoid punishment, when in fact the child did nothing wrong in the first place and is completely innocent. It's a sadistic, twisted, psychologically damaging relationship. I want nothing to do with this imaginary, man made thing.

Ok. I do not want to convert you. And yes, I knew that the biblical doctrine of man being sinful is not something you find agreeable.

(13-06-2014 04:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  And yes, religion is a creaky, man-made, 2000 year old invention that is way past it's shelf life.

Religion has been around for a lot longer than 2000 years.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(12-06-2014 04:01 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  It has been impossible for me to hold any conversation about Atheism with a believer in some cult or other without the following statements and questions escaping their lips: "It must be awful not to believe in god. You must be so depressed and sad all the time." or "Why would you want to take away something from us that gives us peace, happiness, and consolation? Why don't you just leave us alone?"

Set aside for the moment that I don't believe them for a second that it offers them any such thing, it always makes me think about how much better I feel now that I am an Atheist. My experience was and is profoundly the reverse of what the believers usually expect it to be. I believe that non-belief offers much better and more permanent consolation that religion ever could. I will gladly tell you why.

1. There is no one watching me when I am alone. If you grew up religious it's likely that you have heard this totalitarian nonsense, that god is always watching (perhaps most attentively when you masturbate). What a relief it is not be under a total and unalterable surveillance that utterly robs me of the peace that comes from privacy. What a relief not to be judging myself on god's behalf. There is no frantic, masochistic, and desperate self abjection and denial of happiness and fulfillment. It is impossible for me to explain how priceless the peace of merely existing without original sin on your mind is.

2. I do not fear death. Without life beyond the grave what is left to fear? Only the business of dying, not the death itself. Even then I can die with the knowledge that whatever pain I suffer will soon be over and that I will not be around to suffer in the aftermath.

3. My personal relationships are more important to me and more fulfilling. The realization of limited time with friends and family reminds me why they are the most important part of my life. I can spend what time we have together and I can do it without the indignity of pretending I have a remedy or a cure for the unavoidable grief that will seize me upon their death. Afterwards I can spare other friends and relatives useless and stupid statements of supposed comfort regarding seeing the dead again one day or their current residence with angels.

4. There is no Hell. No sadistic pit of fire and torture awaits beyond the grave for any of us, which none of us could ever have deserved to begin with. Those of us who were abused by our teachers and parents with tales of the flames in our youth can truly appreciate the profound and drawn out mental anguish it awakes. We can also appreciate the immeasurable relief that is extracted from the discovery that it is not and never was true.

5. There is no reason to engage in exhausting and impossible missionary work. I have no need to convert my fellows around the world to any cult, but rather can begin the real business of living in and maintaining peace with a global community of many different ideologies and religions. Giving up what is perhaps the most divisive element within culture is the first major step towards seeing the peoples of the world as they are and not what I wish they were.

6. I don't have to listen to the innumerable human authorities who claim my allegiance in the name of god and/or religion. I don't have to feel obligated or involved in the often horrendous actions they take around the world. At the very least I can maintain the dignity and self respect of a person who has no master or liege lord to whom he owes service or support. I live in a free nation but only as a free man because of my emancipation from religion, not in spite of it. Freeing my mind to think for myself and making my own moral decisions is only the minimum required to be the best person I can be. It just so happens that I can make a great deal more progress without defending the immorality of religion along the way. A great part of that progress is my desire to be on the side of abused children rather than their abusers.

7. I can and will partake in every joy and pleasure that is available to me, especially including those prohibited by religion. I have an unfettered opportunity to focus on a fulfilling life rather than an abject one. Even better still, I have friends and family to accompany me on the journey for their own fulfillment. There is not only no need but no desire in me for the self denial, abjection, loathing, judgement, and fear that accompany belief. Emancipation from religion is like a cage being opened, but discovering a world of wonder and pleasure is like bounding through the open door and running like the wind to a new life.

Perhaps we can all hear a little less about how our only hope for peace and joy in this life is belief and devotion to one religion or another. I am getting along much better than I ever did as a believer and so can you.
I can totally see what you are saying here but I don't think I'm capable of seeing it this way.
When I was a believer a very long time ago
1) I was not concerned about god seeing me.
2) I don't remember being afraid of dying but I was terrified but the thought of being buried alive.
3) I can't comment. I've been an atheist too long to remember. But I think better relationships are a result of maturity. Not that I'm all that mature..
4) I wasn't worried about hell. Jesus had my back.
5) I don't think I ever would have. This kind of goes hand and hand with the hell thing. Many theists say we are atheists because we want to sin. I'd say the exact thing to any theist. Especially Catholics and Ray Comfort types.
6) Yup.
7) I think I would have anyway.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 11:42 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 06:19 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  ...
So it seems here that ... your beliefs offer you consolation.

That is interesting.

Jeremy,

Atheism is not a belief system.
...

(13-06-2014 02:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  ...

I never claimed it was.

I have claimed that atheists, like theists, do indeed have beliefs. These beliefs constitute a person's worldview. Atheists have worldviews and theists have worldviews. A worldview is a particular set of beliefs or assumptions about reality.
...

Ergo, there is no such thing as an atheistic worldview.

Good. I' glad we've got that one sorted.

Thumbsup

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
13-06-2014, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2014 05:10 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 04:49 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-06-2014 11:42 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Jeremy,

Atheism is not a belief system.
...

(13-06-2014 02:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  ...

I never claimed it was.

I have claimed that atheists, like theists, do indeed have beliefs. These beliefs constitute a person's worldview. Atheists have worldviews and theists have worldviews. A worldview is a particular set of beliefs or assumptions about reality.
...

Ergo, there is no such thing as an atheistic worldview.

Good. I' glad we've got that one sorted.

Thumbsup

Wrong.

An atheistic worldview is a worldview that does not have as a principle constituent, belief in God or gods.

Any worldview that does not have as a constituent the belief in gods or God can be said to be "atheistic".

a godless worldview, an atheistic worldview, a godless paradigm, an atheistic paradigm are all phrases that can be used interchangeably.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-06-2014 04:49 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Ergo, there is no such thing as an atheistic worldview.

Good. I' glad we've got that one sorted.

Thumbsup

Wrong.

An atheistic worldview is a worldview that does not have as a principle constituent, God or gods.

Any worldview that does not have as a constituent the belief in gods or God can be said to be "atheistic".

a godless worldview, an atheistic worldview, a godless paradigm, an atheistic paradigm are all phrases that can be used interchangeably.

How many world views can one have?

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Metazoa Zeke's post
13-06-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 05:08 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(13-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Wrong.

An atheistic worldview is a worldview that does not have as a principle constituent, God or gods.

Any worldview that does not have as a constituent the belief in gods or God can be said to be "atheistic".

a godless worldview, an atheistic worldview, a godless paradigm, an atheistic paradigm are all phrases that can be used interchangeably.

How many world views can one have?

people's worldviews can change over time. but at any given time, a person can only have one worldview.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2014, 05:13 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-06-2014 04:49 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Ergo, there is no such thing as an atheistic worldview.

Good. I' glad we've got that one sorted.

Thumbsup

Wrong.

An atheistic worldview is a worldview that does not have as a principle constituent, God or gods.

Any worldview that does not have as a constituent the belief in gods or God can be said to be "atheistic".

a godless worldview, an atheistic worldview, a godless paradigm, an atheistic paradigm are all phrases that can be used interchangeably.

So you are disagreeing with yourself?

May I refresh your memory as it was such a long time ago that you wrote:
"A worldview is a particular set of beliefs or assumptions about reality."

The funny thing is, I've only ever heard WLC use the term "atheistic worldview".
Consider
Isn't that curious.
Yes

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
13-06-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 05:08 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-06-2014 05:08 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  How many world views can one have?

people's worldviews can change over time. but at any given time, a person can only have one worldview.

So one can not be Buddhist and atheist?

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: The Consolations of Atheism
(13-06-2014 05:13 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Wrong.

An atheistic worldview is a worldview that does not have as a principle constituent, God or gods.

Any worldview that does not have as a constituent the belief in gods or God can be said to be "atheistic".

a godless worldview, an atheistic worldview, a godless paradigm, an atheistic paradigm are all phrases that can be used interchangeably.

So you are disagreeing with yourself?

May I refresh your memory as it was such a long time ago that you wrote:
"A worldview is a particular set of beliefs or assumptions about reality."

The funny thing is, I've only ever heard WLC use the term "atheistic worldview".
Consider
Isn't that curious.
Yes

atheists have beliefs so I do not see your point.

An atheistic worldview is a view of reality sans God. It is a set of beliefs about the nature of reality that address certain fundamental questions unique to human beings i.e. what happens after death? What is the nature of reality? What is right and wrong? How did I get here? etc. etc. Atheists have beliefs regarding all of these questions and none of their answers can include "God".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: