The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
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25-07-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
(25-07-2017 05:48 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Awesome thank you deese.

I'll see if I can find the supposed measurements of the thing they've built (did they have rough numbers in the bible for how big it was?), and work out if it's sea-worthy. I think the main point is, that if you prove to somebody [theists] mathematically that a ship of that size would not float, or at least it'd have to be completely re-designed in such a way that it would, if that were possible, then you're most of the way there when debating with people. Obviously let alone the archaeological evidence to back up that it just 100% did not happen at all, but the more evidence the better.

You miss the point completely (unfortunately)

It floats because.......godmagickdidit!!! Doesn't matter what your puny maths and physical laws say. You can't debate people who assume rules don't apply to their beliefs.
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25-07-2017, 02:28 PM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
(25-07-2017 10:33 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  Too lazy to look the exact sources up but wooden ships are limited by the strength of wood to a relatively small size. You have to build the vessel so it doesn't break when the prow and stern are atop swells spaced the length of the ship apart (thereby supporting the weight of the ship only at its ends with little support at the center). From what I understand, even if the ship were a solid block of wood, beyond a certain size it would would fracture. The largest wooden vessel ever floated had a hull length of about 350 feet, 150 feet shorter than Ham's ark.
IIRC that boat had constant leakage issues also. Obviously the possibility of the ship being in the worst case scenario you mention wouldn't be high on a small river or protected inlet where the waves never get very big, but Noah's Ark would have presumably had to withstand unprecedented deluge rates and violent storms / waves on the open sea (since everything would be the open sea during most of the voyage). Not to mention randomly crashing into land formations in the portion when they weren't all submerged, and into debris.

Larger wooden boats have been built for longer than you'd think with iron or steel reinforcements or strapping (initially bolted, later welded). The USS Constitution ("Old Ironsides") is an example.

Aluminum is up to 8x stronger than oak, steel up to 3x stronger than aluminum, from one reference I found. In modern times there are very few wooden boats over 150' in length.
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25-07-2017, 04:51 PM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
Wyoming - The World's Biggest Wooden Ship - A Nautical Disaster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)

Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold (see hogging and sagging). Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.

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26-07-2017, 01:05 AM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
As far as the putative Ark's buoyancy goes, I haven't checked with Archimedes, but I see it as being like a shoe box with a house brick in it... straight to the bottom.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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26-07-2017, 01:49 AM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
(25-07-2017 01:37 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  
(25-07-2017 05:48 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Awesome thank you deese.

I'll see if I can find the supposed measurements of the thing they've built (did they have rough numbers in the bible for how big it was?), and work out if it's sea-worthy. I think the main point is, that if you prove to somebody [theists] mathematically that a ship of that size would not float, or at least it'd have to be completely re-designed in such a way that it would, if that were possible, then you're most of the way there when debating with people. Obviously let alone the archaeological evidence to back up that it just 100% did not happen at all, but the more evidence the better.

You miss the point completely (unfortunately)

It floats because.......godmagickdidit!!! Doesn't matter what your puny maths and physical laws say. You can't debate people who assume rules don't apply to their beliefs.
Oh yes I'm aware people still won't take facts for evidence, but it's a start Laugh out load I suppose the next line would be, "well if god used his magic to make the ship float, could he not have used his magic to make the people/animals float instead?

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26-07-2017, 03:08 AM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
If you want to see the full conversation that went down between God and Noah, here it is:




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26-07-2017, 03:19 AM
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
I remember once seeing a movie on TV, about Noah's Ark (it was a garbage made for TV one, not any of the blockbustery types) which featured god being a bit flippant about if he's going to destroy humanity.

The scene in question that I can remember was all like:
[God is just a voice emanating from the sky]

God: Ok Noah, I've decided. Despite the flood, I'm going to destroy everything and start from scratch.
Noah: But lord, you can't do this..
God: I can and I will there is nothing you can do that would-
*Noah sticks his fingers in his ears and just starts dancing in circles*
God: ha-ha-ha, Oh Noah you have convinced me of Humanity's innocence, and that people can be good natured. You and your family can live and start this new world for me...
Noah: Oh thank you lord

Yes thank you indeed, thanks for not destroying the entire universe, as you implied, because of some bloke spinning about like a complete moron. Obviously that was only on the movie for sake of Christian "I fell good" type stuff, but it just baffled me at the time.

I mean there is the obvious part of, the entire world has NEVER flooded in that manner, and it's all garbage, but you get the point

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27-07-2017, 06:24 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2017 07:10 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
(26-07-2017 03:19 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I remember once seeing a movie on TV, about Noah's Ark (it was a garbage made for TV one, not any of the blockbustery types) which featured god being a bit flippant about if he's going to destroy humanity.

The scene in question that I can remember was all like:
[God is just a voice emanating from the sky]

God: Ok Noah, I've decided. Despite the flood, I'm going to destroy everything and start from scratch.
Noah: But lord, you can't do this..
God: I can and I will there is nothing you can do that would-
*Noah sticks his fingers in his ears and just starts dancing in circles*
God: ha-ha-ha, Oh Noah you have convinced me of Humanity's innocence, and that people can be good natured. You and your family can live and start this new world for me...
Noah: Oh thank you lord

Yes thank you indeed, thanks for not destroying the entire universe, as you implied, because of some bloke spinning about like a complete moron. Obviously that was only on the movie for sake of Christian "I fell good" type stuff, but it just baffled me at the time.

I mean there is the obvious part of, the entire world has NEVER flooded in that manner, and it's all garbage, but you get the point

I can't even see how it's a useful story even if you dismiss it as metaphor. So metaphorically it's a story of how god gives humanity a chance to start new again, that's the broadest metaphorical interpretation.

You're still left asking why, he could have gave humanity a new start by not killing them! Facepalm

No one that died got a chance at a new start, it's still an incredibly genocidal temper tantrum from a divine dufus that isn't imaginative enough to simply forgive people instead of killing everyone, including innocent animals that aren't associated with any of god's blind rage.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-08-2017, 01:56 PM
Rainbow RE: The Creationist Museum Is Failing, And Ken Ham Is Blaming Atheists
After watching the video of Seth visiting, some part of me actually wants to go.

Perhaps I could use some old media credentials and get in free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVHWq0ZGE_Y
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